Dorico's measure number problems, with examples

[hautboisbaryton]

I’d like to point out some of Dorico’s limitations in regard to measure numbering. Hopefully Dorico’s engineers can review and tweak the code in a future update? (please!)

All of the examples below are pulled from a document I put together from a musical theatre book, where common practice is to number every measure, and where there are frequently added (usually indicated by lettered bars) and removed bars (shown by skipped measure numbers).

In all the examples I have made sure that I have made no changes in the default positioning. Yes, I know I can fix all these in Engrave mode, but the sheer amount of errors and inconsistencies are unacceptable, especially if I were to be doing this for every part in the orchestra (these examples come from ONE part).

Superfluous initial bar number

Superfluous bar number

Bar numbers colliding with repeat wings and superfluous bar number 209

Superfluous initial bar number

Superfluous bar number

Duplicated bar numbers when ranges shown

Superfluous bar number

Superfluous initial bar number

Seemingly random bar number placement. Why is “A” nested in the repeat bar, while “1” and “2” are not? Why is “1” placed outside the repeat wings, while “2” & “3” are not? Why do “2” & “3” collide with the wings?

Superfluous bar number

Bar number collides with repeat wing

Unlike #11 above, this bar number does not collide with the repeat wing

Why is “1” nested within the repeat wing while “3” is not?

Bar number collides with repeat wing

Bar numbers collide with repeat wings

Superfluous bar number

Unlike #11 above, this bar number does not collide with the repeat wing

Seemingly random bar number placement. Why do “6” & “7” collide with the repeat wings, but “5” & “8” are placed outside them?

Superfluous bar number

Why are “47” & “49” placed outside the repeat wings, while “48” collides with them?

Why is “64” nested in the repeat, while “65” & “70” are placed outside? Why does “70” collide with the wing while “65” does not?

[DanielMuzMurray]

I believe you can hide bar numbers at rehearsal marks. I guess this would be in Layout Options > Bar Numbers.

As for the others, although there may be a sensible technical reason for these that isn’t adjustable by users, it would be helpful if you could attach a small project with some of these examples so we can explore your settings.

[hautboisbaryton]

In musical theatre style, every bar should be numbered, even at rehearsal marks (except if the bar number is part of a multimeasure rest measure range).

Example:

I can’t post the project with music, but I will attempt to post a file without music for perusal.

[Janus]

@hautboisbaryton

Yes, I know I can fix all these in Engrave mode, but the sheer amount of errors and inconsistencies are unacceptable, especially if I were to be doing this for every part in the orchestra (these examples come from ONE part).

Why do you think those are superfluous?

[asherber]

@hautboisbaryton

In musical theatre style, every bar should be numbered, even at rehearsal marks (except if the bar number is part of a multimeasure rest measure range).

With these settings in Layout Options > Bar Numbers > Showing and Hiding:

I get these results:

Isn’t that mostly what you want?

And do you have “Avoid collision” ticked under Layout Options > Bar Numbers > Placement?

[asherber]

@hautboisbaryton

I can’t post the project with music,

You could scramble the pitches in your project with the functions under Write > Transform.

[hautboisbaryton]

Nope, if I use those settings, I get this:

The first bar needs to be numbered.

Also, with those settings I still get the duplicate letters:

[asherber]

@hautboisbaryton

The first bar needs to be numbered.

Oh – you kept saying “superfluous initial bar number”, so I thought you didn’t want the first bar numbered. Does it fix it if you tick “Show first bar number when shown every bar”?

@hautboisbaryton

Also, with those settings I still get the duplicate letters:

I’m not sure what’s causing that – you can see that my examples don’t have that (because of that last setting, which is unticked). I think we’d need to see your project (or a cut-down version of it) in order to diagnose further.

[hautboisbaryton]

Here’s a thoroughly scrambled version of one of the flows (attached).

Regardless of the Layout Options for the bar numbers, I still get the superfluous letter “A” at the first measure and the collision at 209.
Reed_bookscrambled - 2.dorico (2.0 MB)

[hautboisbaryton]

Here’s another scrambled flow.

Regardless of the options chosen, I still see the superfluous letter “D” and measure number “1”.
Reed_bookscrambled - 5.dorico (1.8 MB)

[asherber]

@hautboisbaryton

Regardless of the Layout Options for the bar numbers, I still get the superfluous letter “A” at the first measure and the collision at 209.

You get the A because Dorico always shows the first bar number at a bar number change. But you can hide this once, with “Set local properties” set to Globally, and it will hide in all layouts.

I wonder whether the collision at 209 has to do with the fact that it’s also a bar number change – although I see that there’s no collision in the (mostly empty) violin layout. Maybe someone else has an idea.

@hautboisbaryton

Regardless of the options chosen, I still see the superfluous letter “D” and measure number “1”.

The “1” is like the A – a bar number change, so it shows the first number.

The D seems to be because it’s a subordinate sequence – if I change that first sequence to a primary sequence, the bar number disappears, as I would expect from the settings. Again, I’m not sure whether this is by design or a bug.

But I think these settings have resolved most of your display (not position) issues, right? And the superfluous A can be hidden globally. I don’t think you want to hide the D globally, because some players may have notes in that bar and want to see the bar number (letter).

[hautboisbaryton]

Definitely do not want to hide the D or the 1 globally.

I don’t understand the logic of having both the first bar number in a multimeasure rest range and the range itself displayed. Likewise (that is, the rehearsal bar number and the multimeasure rest range) at rehearsal numbers.

[asherber]

@hautboisbaryton

I don’t understand the logic of having both the first bar number in a multimeasure rest range and the range itself displayed.

It’s because there’s a bar number change there. Dorico assumes that if you’re changing bar number sequences, you’d want players to know it. In any case, it’s easy enough to hide this bar number locally in the layouts that do have a multi bar reset there.

@hautboisbaryton

Likewise (that is, the rehearsal bar number and the multimeasure rest range) at rehearsal numbers.

Well, rehearsal marks don’t necessarily use bar numbers.

I don’t work in musical theater, and I’m not disagreeing with the look you’re going for. But I also find Dorico’s default behavior to be reasonable. Yes, you could implement a rule that says “Always show the first bar number of a bar number change unless it coincides with a multi-bar rest that shows the bar number range or a rehearsal mark that uses bar numbers”, but once a user knows that bar number changes always show the first bar number, it’s fairly easy to deal with.