Dotted quarter at last beat of 3/8 bar

I am editing a 19th century piano sonata and it has some unusual things going on. One of those is the use of dotted quarter notes at the last beat of a 3/8 bar:

This is not proper use of timing, but it should be in the edition I’m preparing. Does anyone know if this is possible in Dorico? Since it is not “proper” notation, it is probably not. Schunke (the composer) probably uses these as accents, therefore I don’t think an 8th note tied to a quarter note in the next beat makes much sense, or does it?


You can fake it using hidden tuplets.
(My guess is this is some shorthand for sustaining the bass. Never seen it before though)

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I don’t understand at all how one is supposed to interpret this. 3 dotted-quarters in a 3/8 measure? And 3 dotted-8ths sharing the same space? Is this just supposed to show very legato playing with notes overlapping? This is obviously published music and not hand-written, so are you sure that’s what Schunke originally wrote?

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That’s much smarter then what I was doing (creating separate voices and trying to hide the flags (which I haven’t found out how to achieve). Thanks a lot!

Frankly, if the composer didn’t leave a note on what he tried to communicate with this, it’s nonsense.
Edit: next guess: the dotted quarters are actually really dotted quarters, supposed to sound into the next bar. Could (should?) have been written as tied notes.

I have not found a manuscript yet, but hope to find it in the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin. My guess it is meant like these passages in Chopin’s First Ballade:


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It probably is. It’s also very uncomfortable to sustain the notes in such a rather wide stretch. And you can interpret it in contrary ways: sustaining the notes to smooth it out (“finger pedal”), or give some extra attention to these notes, like accents. I”m clueless now.

There are two main reasons for creating a new edition – 1) update the notation so that contemporary and future musicians can understand what’s to be performed, and 2) reproduce the original notation as accurately as possible so that people can gain historical insight into practices of the past.
If you’re trying to accomplish the second goal then you might need to experiment with open time signatures – I’m not expert enough in Dorico yet to be able to advise you how to accomplish this but I hope someone else can jump in with more exact steps to follow.
And you will need to include some explanation such as “This notation is to be played as smoothly as possible with slight overlapping of notes. The meter is still strict 3/8 so don’t take the 3 dotted-quarters as implying additional beats.”

Stretching to a tenth is not that difficult for the average pianist.

This works beautifully. Still not sure what is meant, but I’m going to figure it out later.

Stretching isn’t, but sustaining these creates uncomfortable tention in the hands and practically kills the possiblity of forearm rotation?

My guess to what it might mean:
Schermafbeelding 2022-07-12 om 12.17.57

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That would be my guess too. Seems the only logical possibility.