Editing Hairpins

I’m struggling to understand how to alter individual hairpin pieces. In the Gif below, I’d like to ONLY extend the decrescendo, to reach the end of the note (I had changed my mind after initial input, and realized the note should be longer than it was when I input the hairpin).

edit hairpin

As you can see, this is NOT a messa di voce hairpin, but a pair of < and >. However, with the grouping, it doesn’t appear possible to just elongate the >. Is there no way around this, besides “remove from group, extend, re-add to group”? So far, that’s the only way I’ve figured out how to do it. It seems silly to me to remove from group, when I actually still want these things grouped together. It’s also rather tedious if it’s tutti, because I seem to lose the linking in the process, so I find myself doing this sort of thing over and over again when it seems like it should be a simple edit.

I might be confusing the issue somehow but I think you should be able to drag the end of the dim. hairpin where you want it, and then drag the beginning of the dim. hairpin where you want it.

Nope, there’s no handle to grab onto at the beginning of the dim.
Similarly, there’s no handle at the end of the < to grab hold of either.

Yeah, this is also why I grabbed the properties panel in my gif, to show that these are NOT messa di voce hairpins. They’re two regular hairpins grouped together.

I’m sorry, I’m not at my computer and can’t give any other advice currently.

All good, I appreciate anyone taking the time to look at my struggles!

Is there any particular reason why you don’t want to use Messa di voce?

(sorry, I edited this while you were typing!)

That’s actually a pretty good question, since things seem to operate quite differently depending on input method.

I input them with the carat (which allowed me to place the peak mid bar), and then (thinking I was done with the passage) grouped them.

I do appear to have a number of issues with my workflow where I constantly revise things, because grouping seems to be very unfriendly to edits (in this and in several other cases I’ve had). So this might be a case where I feel I should be able to edit things that are grouped, but it’s just not well supported at this point and I should really try to avoid grouping things until I reach the engraving stage.

Fair enough.

If you do enter as messa di voce then you will be able to drag the middle.

I’ve actually been unable to “drag” or move with key commands the middle of messa di voce hairpins. I dunno if that’s a glitch on my end.

I’ve been able to go into the properties for mdv hairpins and adjust the “inflection” parameter to define where the peak is with them though, which is a bit of a cumbersome method, but it is functional.

When dynamics are grouped, lengthening/shortening operations work on the whole group. You can drag immediate dynamics and the center handle of messa di voce within groups to noteheads, but not using key commands. Could well be easier to ungroup, adjust durations, then re-group, because you can use key commands to move/lengthen hairpins to non-notehead positions.

Thank you Lillie for the clarification. I guess this would be feature request then (I’m not sure how/if it’s appropriate to ask for such) - just as you can move immediate dynamics around within a group (like pp, you can move the mf left/right), it would be really nice if you could move the peak p<> around as though there were an immediate dynamic already there.

mdv hairpins are also pretty much unusable for me in their current state, as I rarely have more than one notehead inside a <> to navigate with. If the peak of an mdv hairpin were based on the rhythmic grid, rather than noteheads, it would be massively more usable.

Thank you!

See also this thread from 2021–22 for more details.

See the following from Dorico “First Steps” instructions:

Oops, I see Lillie already gave your some very helpful instructions. The section I referred you to may still be of help for future use.

Yup, that’s why I made sure my screen grab included the properties panel so you could see that this is not a mdv hairpin.

Yeah, I’ve got the dynamic input with all the functions in that link. My issue is with editing them AFTER input has occurred, because I changed my mind about something (in this case, where I wanted the position of the peak of the hairpin).

It appears the only way to do this currently is to make sure everything is ungrouped, adjust everything, and then regroup, as editing is extremely limited to grouped dynamics.