I’ve got a bunch of musical theater files done in Finale, saved to XML.
They have text blocks with dialog and cues. I’ve imported the text OK with the Import XML preferences… now, the problem is how to edit them? Move, resize, format the text, edit the text…?
No question this is a challenge to format in any notation program. To help us see what you are after, can you post a screen shot of what this passage looked like in its former program?
I always leave this sort of formatting until the very end of my preparation and then work from front to back in the score, since it will of necessity require the hazard of page overrides or custom Page Templates/Header Templates.
This is imported xml, and that’s how it looks on import. My question is, how do I control the placement of the text on the page?
After some thrashing around last PM I found I could at least select it in Write. I was able to change the font size of the first (term “block”??), but that’s it. I didn’t find out how to change its position relative to the staff, or how to change the next block. I can see a little orange line showing its entry position in the staff with which its associated, but not able to do the same kind of edits on the second one.
This is essential function. Finale does this sort of thing easily, you can select text blocks and staff systems and just drag em where you want em on the page. How do you do these edits in Dorico?
This was as far as I was able to get in Dorico. I can’t find a way to control the appearance of the orange (selected) block.
Also, I wanted to add, on re-opening the file this AM, I got a “missing fonts” dialog - telling me that Times New Roman was not installed on my system (It is. Finale had some issues with that font definition after one of its updates…26, I think, when they went to SMuFl.
#text-block
@dspreadbury
Hello @jonburr - I’m tempted to let you know (if you didn’t already) about a recently launched facebook group page, for kindred souls from the Musical Theatre world who’ve also switched from Finale… sharing tips, experience, support, stories, etc…
Dorico for Musical Theatre & Opera Composers, Orchestrators, & Engravers | Facebook
PS :- sadly, I’ve no direct help to offer you myself; I can imagine this (‘Editing imported text from Finale XML’) might be a popular theme…
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Text handling is the biggest weakness in Dorico. One should not have to go through fields of Title box or flow of project. Software of In Design, Publisher and other desktop publishing programs that use frames, text can be easily edited in the frames. Also, one can have text size expand and reduce within the frame. Text should become second nature in Dorico. Sibelius creators understood this and made everything text related. Hopefully Dorico developers will improve text handling in a big way. There are a lot of xml files that with lots of text and Dorico can’t find a field to put them in. There should be a way for user to assign where these texts go while importing and exporting in xml.
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Sure. I’d say 100% the team are well aware of current ‘limitations’ and have plenty of ideas for future improvements in this area.
Dorico is only 8 years old… the team is small. Development is always a question of time/resources/priorities - besides then (suddenly) coping with a HUGE influx of users into the fold from a different notation package, adding all their particular/specific needs and requests to the mix as well…
Rest assured, they are listening; they do read all the posts here.!
Well, in this case… it’s not just me. This is a glaring deficiency, unfortunately
Yes of course, understood… benefits needed for all existing Dorico users too… 
Apologies. But I’m getting sick of gripes like this.
We have been inundated with a tsunami of exiled Finalists, whose development team threw in the towel, complaining that their (hopefully) new home is not ‘adequately’ equipped for their needs.
I think the regular Dorico community has been extraordinarily patient (and will continue to be so) in answering the myriad ‘dumb questions’ (yes, we all have them). Some features/workflows are not immediately obvious or have multiple routes to achieve a particular outcome. And, yes, there are many features still on the wishlist.
But being dismissive of the product is hardly the best way to make new friends. If Dorico does not yet work for your specialist area of practice, that’s OK. You can always continue to use Finale. But please don’t denigrate the work of the Dorico development team on your way out.
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I have been appreciative of your past responses to my posts here, and hopefully have expressed that adequately. The forum and the denizens here are top-notch.
I don’t believe this is a dumb question, but instead a real issue, which you can see affects others as well. I’m a huge fan of Dorico in all other aspects and have been a Dorico evangelist in other posts and social media - I’m really excited about it, actually, and am looking forward to doing new work… with Dorico’s functionality with text blocks.
This is a narrow and specific issue, but also a bit of a shock to encounter. It appears the issue is Dorico has trouble mapping incoming XML text to whatever functionality is in the program.
I suspect that the influx of folks with basic issues is trying the patience of yourself and your colleagues, and that’s understandable.
But - you should also be able to see an observation like that in the perspective in which it occurs. Nowhere did I say “Dorico SUCKS! I’m LEAVING!”. Please forgive any offense that may have been caused by the phrase “glaring deficiency.” It certainly is, for a specific workflow, and I stand by that statement.
In the meantime, I’m still wondering how to control that text with Dorico?
If that’s not possible at the present time, that information would also be useful.
I was not suggesting it was.
There are numerous posts where @dspreadbury patiently talks about the challenges of interpreting text in xml files. (And you insist on using qualifiers like “… it is a shock…”. Please don’t be shocked)
And thank you for your non-apology.
(I will leave it to experts to comment in detail on text handling)
OK, “Surprised.” I had already mythologized Dorico because it’s so awesome in every other way I’ve encountered.
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Is this text intended to be at the start of a flow? In which case, I’d suggest using a text frame to incorporate it; rather than staff-attached text.
Will it means a page override? Yes – but despite admonishments against them, manual edits are there to be made, once all other options have been considered.
You could even create a Page Template or a Flow Heading that leaves a large Text Frame for you to fill in.
You can move the edits in page overrides forward and backward, if the layout changes significantly.
Could there be an easier way? Probably.
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Possibly? I think the handling of text above the top stave creates a conundrum, but I do understand the spacing algorithm must start somewhere.
Thank you for the suggestions -
Dorico did a great job recognizing the rest of the text blocks as associated with the staff, closely approximating the layout of the source file. Generally speaking its handing of the Finale XML is way better than Sibelius, and Dorico’s layout flexibility is similar to Finale’s.
Creating a text block in the Flow header is a great idea. For some reason, copying/pasting in there from the imported text block fails - it’s as if Dorico doesn’t recognize it as text.
YES! I found out how to do this. Make the selection in Write, then move/drag in Engrave. No need for a text box in the Flow header, even
After messing around with this for a while, it seems that Dorico converts a Finale XML text block into a series of text blocks, one for every line.
Clicking in the associated bar in Write selects all the text in it. This selection behaves like a block, and can be moved as such in Engrave.
These individual line blocks can also be selected in Engrave, moved and restyled, although it doesn’t appear to be possible to drag-select all the line blocks together in Engrave - but shift-clicking them adds to the selection They can be selected, edited, styled and repositioned individually in Engrave as well.
Create a Frame Break in Engrave.
Yes ! Sorry, for some reason it didn’t seem to work the first time…
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I’ve said elsewhere that we have ideas for how to better handle the demands of large blocks of stage directions or dialogue as is common in musical theatre and opera. I can’t say for sure when we will be able to implement these things, but please be assured that we are aware of the issues in this area (which go beyond how well or otherwise Dorico handles the MusicXML import aspect) and have plans for how to improve things.
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I discovered that the existing tools can do it…switching between Write and Engrave, text can selected precisely and moved exactly. I did an article about it. The results look beautiful, and Dorico beats Sibelius by a mile on this one.