Engrave/Pages etc. has defeated me

My question is, “Am I alone?”
I’m ashamed to admit that the right side of the Dorico Engrave screen is over my head, though have repeatedly tried hard to get it over the years. To get on with my projects I simply type and place everything I need page by page manually using {@…@}. I wistfully dream in vain.

I happily earned my living using lots of programming languages and operating systems over my working years. I am competent with most things I need to do, but not this. Am I alone?

Have you had a read of First Steps and/or watch some tutorials on YouTube? They’re very helpful.

Do you mean you have trouble understanding Page Templates?

You may not be alone, but trust me, it’s very, very accessible.

Ask me (us) a specific question for a place to start.

Sorry, but I don’t understand your problem. It just looks like your space size is too large.
I did this in 10 minutes importing an pdf (via photoscore), removing slurs and dynamics and setting space size to 6mm (on A4). OK it needs some tidying up.

Why on earth do you need to play around with slash regions? And what’s with the rehearsal marks?
I fear you are overcomplicating things!

Think of Page Templates as you would an Object definition. Pages are then instances of the Default or First template objects.

@spencered have you seen this Discover Dorico session by John Barron? It’s from a little while ago, so the look-and-feel of Dorico has changed, and the term “master page” has become “page template”, but the fundamental principles remain the same.

Perhaps it would help to watch someone making some edits in page templates and then seeing the results in the music? (start from around 8’40) – it might make it easier for you to see how you might apply those principles to your own, specific requirements.

And of course, you can always come back here with questions – e.g. if you explain what it is what you want to end up with as an end result, people can suggest ways of getting there.

Also feel free to share an example project file, as that way people here can see what it is you’ve done thus far, and likewise suggest alternative ways of achieving something similar. Revel in the specifics :smiley:

If you prefer a written example, here’s a page from the First Steps guide that demonstrates a particular edit that you could make to the First page template, and then the result you get in the music after editing the page template.

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Aha! This is gold–new information in this Discover Dorico piece. Coincidentally last night I discovered that I forgot how to solve the Rubik’s Cube. Some scarce brain space has been vacated. Your message showed up just in time.


Working now with Page Templates, Frames and Reusing Layouts
I want to stay on this thread for a while. Progress is being made for the first time ever.
Under the Page Templates, how did I manage to cause Default and First to reverse positions?
I started this one clean from scratch and I think I’m following Mr. Barron’s instructions as slavishly as I can.
What’s up here?

The order position there has absolutely no importance at all… Aren’t they in alphabetical order?

Thank you. I’m glad it’s that simple.

About 12 minutes into the above video, Mr. Barron starts changing things.
About 9 minutes in Mr. Barron said not to edit things because the pages would sprout overrides as a result. I missed something between these two events. What did I miss?
Maybe it was that neither of the Page Templates were highlighted in the early minutes? Later he highlighted the Default page. Is that all one must do to avoid page overrides?

I think the general message is don’t make changes that produce overrides until you understand the implications. (eg. overrides occur if you change frame sizes on a page, but don’t occur if you make those changes to the underlying template. So get your templates right first, else changes to the templates will not be reflected on the page)

I am doing things on my editions that you are apparently not doing on yours, mostly fingering notations, which take up space. What I have done is what I needed to do to limit the edition to two pages readable to play without page turns on a tablet. The slashes created a little bit of space, thus saving me hassles later on. I don’t expect anyone to ever even hear this music. It’s exclusively for my use and convenience. I have been doing it since before there were computers. It’s really nice to have computers, don’t you agree?

If you are only using tablet, you can increase the usable space by reducing page margin settings in layout options. I’d explore changes there first and look at template changes later. You can play with space size and note spacing to radically change the appearance on the page.

The only change I’d make to the page templates would perhaps be to remove the running header and page number on the ‘Default’ template - I think the blue music frame will automatically expand to grab back that space.

The way Engrave works reminds me of Adobe InDesign. Some of the terminology seems the same as InDesign. It’s extremely powerful. It’s worth struggling through it if you have non-default things you want to do. It took me a while to get the concepts, but they really make sense.

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I hope to be able soon to translate those words into something meaningful to me. There has been a lot of word salad consumed over these years since I started with Dorico, and there has been, I am sure, a lot of meaningful meat as well. The challenge is first to locate it within a sea of confusion, and over time, sort it out.
The most valuable words in today’s salad have come from Lilly Harris and John Barron. I hope not to have heard the last of them.

(I think) for your stated need (ie just show notes on the tablet, and get everything on 2 pages), you should, for the moment, ignore engrave mode.

Just play around with the basic page layout settings (ctrl-shift-L) and see how they change what appears. Dorico has literally hundreds of options and it is all too easy to get lost, but the basic settings work very well. Space size affects everything. Start there.

Thanks for the offer. The fog started to lift today for the first time. John Barron’s video, mentioned elsewhere on this thread, lit the first bulb since I started here a year or two ago. In a few words during the first 14 minutes the video described the exact problem that has plagued me since the beginning. Lillie Harris pointed out that particular video among a sea of others. One obstacle has been set aside. You may hear from me again.

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