Yes, the irony is that the software is unintuitive. Good UI allows for ease to complexity.
A simple function that allows ease of transposition for fast workflow is better than needing to scour forums to wonder why double flats are appearing all the time
What company a composer keeps as well as their professional occupation absolutely matters. This is a primary source of my income and highlighting factors that impeed seamless workflow in a software that costs almost $1kAUD is a factor that I want to highlight to the community and the developers
Every extra step adds seconds to creating an arrangement or transcription. When arranging tens of thousands of bars, this adds up.
There is a real sence of putting Dorico on a pedestal here from some users. It really doesnât make you look big. Itâs just annoying and doesnât actually address root UI issues.
I made this post as a discussion on why - only Dorico - handles transposition very unintuitivley. It adds steps that waste time, and therefore, increases costs for my clients.
UI is absolutely important. Iâve never in my career had to diagnose so many UI work arounds (for any software).
Also the absolute lol to âthings are only unintuitiveâ. Mate, I have a Masters Degree in education and this statement cannot be more wrong.
This forum is populated with a broad spectrum of users, from beginners through (many) seasoned (and often higher degree-holding) professional composers, arrangers, engravers, performers, educators, and theorists. (And of course the Dorico team â themselves seasoned musicians of all types â regularly reads it and frequently responds.) There would be plenty of âgoogling to go around,â but that really is beside the point of what this forum is about.
The common ground we all share is that itâs a space where fellow users give generously of their time and knowledge to try to help one another constructively. Letâs please keep it that way. It would be a shame to squander the good will from which we all benefit.
(Obviously politely expressed comments about the software itself are welcome here, and the dev team will take note.)
Agree with this. I came here to ask a question on transposition.
I added context to how it can impeed workflow, and that there have been easier solutions already implemented in other software.
Another user expanded upon the qualms of transposition issues.
Then, this discussion is met with some tall-poppy arrogance and belittlement (re; basic music theory, grammar correcrion) to a new user of the software.
IMHO, @cypress.bartlett.mus has a point: I hope we all can agree that a key signature like Bbb (or its âenharmonic equivalentâ G## [Gx?] LOL) doesnât exist. Itâs ridiculous to confront anyone with it, theoretically schooled or not.
Most KSs in Western tonality come in one flavour only. The only exceptions are those with 6 or 7 accidentals, that can also be written with 6/5 of the other kind. Transposing up one semitone from Ab can only result in A, because thatâs the only tonic possible there. Dorico shouldnât even allow anything else, and adjust automatically to a sensible interval.
I guess Iâll say that there should be a way to allow these remote key sigs, but in practice we all know what the user is going to want 99.999% of the time. It should be simple to get the expected result, and possible, but more difficult, to get the remote option. It still just seems inconsistent to me that Dorico knows this for transposing instruments but not for Write / Transpose.
Going back to my Alto Sax example, Dorico handles the transposing instrument exactly as expected and flips to the enharmonic when going up 9 semitones:
But transposing 9 semitones with Write / Transcribe gives me this, even with Respell to avoid double and triple sharps and flats selected. (Iâm not really sure what that setting is expected to do, as it doesnât seem to work at all on things like key signatures, chord symbols, etc.)
I mean, come on, the odds of anyone wanting that has to be really tiny. I know there are lots of works that briefly modulate into G# major, like Bachâs C# major Prelude and Fugue, but there canât be many that actually use that key sig. Iâm sure the ratio of works in Ab major vs G# major is about a gazillion to one. Make the default be what the user almost certainly wants, and the remote key possible, but not the default. It would be great if Transpose could be as intelligent as transposing instruments are with this.
Somewhat related, it would be nice if there was a way to specify how Dorico favors 6 sharps or flats with transposing instruments, or an easy way to flip to the other side. Redefining an Alto Sax to be in D# instead of Eb works, but can have adverse effects on other key sigs if there are modulations.
Absolutely this! Itâs not about taking away the functionality for detailed scoring for unique approaches to score writing. Itâs about sensible workflow. There are several other things that I have com across that IMO, disrupt what can make a truly great program workflow.
Double bar lines (other bar lines) disappearing after you insert a repeat on a new system (you then have to go to options to manually change the previous bar line)
Drum kit notation - having the option to pick a drum kit that notates the same as a 4 voiced instrument (I find it contradictory that this is the instrument where the program needs to âhold your handâ with specific voice placements, but other instruments it isnât. I spent a solid hour configuring a drum kit that would work for my workflow - it still doesnât feel right -, where I know if I were able to just input notes as if it were a treble clef, it would be 100x easier)
Ability to turn off/ on bar and chord select (or select all) when Shift+click - Especially when there is a lot of copy and pasting to be done.
Crescendos/ decrescendos (or other lines) to be able to be toggled to âsnapâ to a certain subdivision for extending them (I would default it to 32nd notes). To make it easer to increase or decrease the length of the line
Ability to add hotkeys to anything notated related within reason (e.g. double bar lines), and not have to explore a notepad text to manually insert or download 3rd party software. Again, I find it odd that there are options for hotkeys to the most obscure things, but not barlines.
Ability to toggle on/off applying system breaks and page breaks in write mode (this is a personal thing, but I tend to format as Iâm engraving). This greatly speeds up when I am deciding on how to split a 3-5-7-8-9 etc. bar phrase into lines. or how many systems I can fit into a page (again, this is a personal opinion)
Ability to insert rests wherever I want (e.g. clicking on a minim rest, selecting a crotchet, and the minim turns into 2 crotches). This only seems to be a system level option for odd time signatures. Itâs very annoying when the feel of the phrasing changes in the same piece of music.
All these points come from someone who transcribes/ arranges daily, and where every second counts.
A few suggestions and observations that may help with some things you find frustrating:
I think youâre talking about changing the âBarline at end of systemâ property in the Properties panel. For double barlines in particular, thereâs also this project-wide setting in Engraving Options, which you can also set as your default.
Iâm not sure if Iâm understanding you correctly, but the default in Dorico for percussion input is to treat percussion input as treble clef input. This is in Preferences > Note Input > Percussion Input.
You should be able to set up a 4-instrument kit that you can input with 4 different treble clef notes.
By default, as I guess you know, Dorico does not include barlines and chord symbols in selections like this. But in 6.1, there is a new command, âAdd Chord Symbols to Selectionâ, which is available in the jump bar; you can also assign a shortcut to it in Preferences > Key Commands.
When you use Shift+Alt/Opt+arrow to extend a hairpin, the endpoint moves by the duration indicated by the rhythmic grid in the lower left corner of the window, and you can set that to a 32nd note if you like. There are built in key commands for increasing and decreasing the rhythmic grid value, and you can also set key commands for specific values.
Iâm not sure what you mean by the second part of this sentence. Itâs true that you canât set a shortcut key to change to a double barline (for example), but itâs pretty simple to select a barline, invoke the Bars popover with Shift+B, and type || and Enter.
Youâll find many people who agree with you, but this is a core part of the design of Dorico, like it or not.
Not quite as fast, but you can enter one forced crotchet rest with , for rest mode, O for force duration, and Y to enter the rest â and then Dorico will provide the second crotchet rest. Depending on your needs (i.e., a few of these, or a whole passage), you can also use time signatures to get the rest divisions you want automatically. For example, while 5/8 groups 3+2 by default, [2+3]/8 will display as 5/8 but group 2+3. If you have music that goes back and forth between the two, you can insert multiple time signatures like this and then hide all but the first one, so that the whole passage just shows a single 5/8.
Double Bar Lines: I did switch this option, although it then creates an automatic double bar line before every start repeat sign (same issue, but reversed).
Crescendos: Many thanks, I missed this
Hotkeys: I have been using your suggested method. Although I use the double bar line enough that a ctrl+(key) is a more optimal option for me (same with repeats). Some have suggested going into the .jsot file and manually editing the hotkeys in the Dorico file directory.
System/ page: I understand core âfeaturesâ, although it woyld seem wise to incorporate this if people are requesting it (again, as a toggle)
Rests: Thatâs a very round about and ti e consuming way to group. If I could just insert a rest where I see fit is much quicker.
Again, I truly appreciate the reply with some core work arounds. Although itâs been a journey spending +20 hours this week configuring Dorico to a workflow that is quick and seamless. Issues that didnât arise the same in Musescore, Sibelius or Finale (yes, I have gripes with all those, but not ergonomics).
Editing the key commands file is not difficult, but itâs also not dead simple. Just be sure to make a backup of the file before you begin, and post here (maybe a new thread) if you have problems. And make sure youâre editing your user file, not the one bundled with the Dorico application.
The general approach in Dorico is to set higher level settings and constructs (like time signatures) and let the program do the work for you, but you also can make individual changes. If you add one explicit rest, using the steps I outlined above, you can then copy and paste it, or Alt/Opt+click it somewhere else in the score, which makes it quicker when youâre doing this often.
(You could also record this action as a user script, and then invoke it from the Script menu, or from the jump bar, or by mapping a custom key command.)
