# Enharmonic trills **URL:** \ **Category:** Dorico\ **Created:** [September 17, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480 "2021-09-17T16:24:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Campodw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Campodw](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Campodw)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/1 "2021-09-17T16:24:12Z")
Is there a way to do enharmonic trills on Dorico? I’m trying to create a timbral trill for woodwinds ---
**Author:** ![dspreadbury](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/dspreadbury/32/328687_2.png) [@dspreadbury](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/dspreadbury)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/2 "2021-09-17T21:02:24Z")
Welcome to the forum, @Campodw. I’m not sure I’m completely clear on what you’re looking for, but are you wanting to show a trill between the main note and another pitch that is enharmonically equivalent to that note? If so, then you can achieve this by activating the **Interval** property with the trill selected, and specify an interval of e.g. **1 Augmented**. ---
**Author:** ![klafkid](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/klafkid/32/4391_2.png) [@klafkid](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/klafkid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2021, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/3 "2021-09-18T00:43:45Z")
A bisbigliando can be notated in many different ways - do you have an example of what you are trying to achieve? ---
**Author:** ![Campodw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Campodw](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Campodw)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/4 "2021-09-19T12:19:21Z")
A trill to the same note by trilling on a fingering that alters the timbre but not the pitch, i.e., on clarinet, a written A5 trilling to A5 using the RH ring finger ---
**Author:** ![klafkid](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/klafkid/32/4391_2.png) [@klafkid](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/klafkid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/5 "2021-09-19T13:20:29Z")
I understood, but again, there are many ways to notate it. I have seen an unmeasured tremolo with the note “bisbigl.” above, or a normal trill indication with the note “bisbigl.” above it, as well as a two note tremolo with two different fingerings indicated, or lastly a trill with a bracketed notehead with the same pitch with a note “bisbiggl.” above. Again, you need to tell us which specific notation you are trying to achieve so we can help you accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Campodw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Campodw](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Campodw)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/6 "2021-09-19T18:48:45Z")
A timbral trill that trills to the same note. For example, a clarinet trill on written A5 that uses RH ring finger to change timbre, but not note. ---
**Author:** ![notesetter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/notesetter/32/174537_2.png) [@notesetter](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/notesetter)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/7 "2021-09-19T18:59:45Z")
> [@klafkid](#): > > I have seen an unmeasured tremolo with the note “bisbigl.” above This is my choice - use the 4 stroke (unmeasured) tremolo on the stem. It’s not really a trill, nor a tremolo, is it? “Neither fish nor fowl” as they say. Jazz musicians have called it a “bubble”. ---
**Author:** ![klafkid](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/klafkid/32/4391_2.png) [@klafkid](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/klafkid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/8 "2021-09-19T22:07:49Z")
Tremolo and troll are quite close in music notation - after all any trill with a bigger interval than a second is classically notated as a tremolo. ---
**Author:** ![Bollen](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/bollen/32/273361_2.png) [@Bollen](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Bollen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/9 "2021-09-20T16:45:21Z")
> [@notesetter](#): > > Jazz musicians have called it a “bubble”. I call it the turkey! And I prefer it notated with a + on the altered fingering note… @Campodw this is what you’re talking about right: [https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/b/7/b727d6f2679538256ad19727bc17e24c6a9dedbb.mp3](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/b/7/b727d6f2679538256ad19727bc17e24c6a9dedbb.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![notesetter](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/notesetter/32/174537_2.png) [@notesetter](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/notesetter)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/10 "2021-09-20T18:48:56Z")
> [@Bollen](#): > > > [@notesetter](#): > > > > Jazz musicians have called it a “bubble”. > > I call it the turkey! And I prefer it notated with a + on the altered fingering note… Listen to the following recording at 1:53 for an example for an example of a jazz player playing this technique. In a “serious music” setting the effect is much the same although in a much different context. Jazz players use this as a sort of embellishment. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-TwoXLZo6-c/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGDogZShWMA8=&rs=AOn4CLDIzLRy4a73prcrwLpFPjVH1tzayg "Kenny Dorham Quartet - Lotus Blossom") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TwoXLZo6-c) ---
**Author:** ![Bollen](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/bollen/32/273361_2.png) [@Bollen](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Bollen)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/11 "2021-09-23T00:08:24Z")
Yes, like I said, I know it well… ---
**Author:** ![cfm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cfm](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/cfm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/12 "2021-09-23T16:34:59Z")
3 or 4 stroke tremolos are usually interpreted as fluttertonguing by woodwind players. For a tibral trill, you’d be better writing the note with a regular (diatonic) trill without any accidental or auxiliary note with “timbral trill” written above as either shift-X text or as a custom playing technique. If you’re sound set has the appropriate sound, you can wire that up to you the custom PT and suppress the playback on the trill line. If not, set the trill to playback with an interval of 1 Augmented. ---
**Author:** ![maresz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@maresz](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/maresz)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/13 "2022-05-04T14:31:45Z")
> [@Campodw](#): > > l Hello, I’m exactly trying to do this today, but I can’t get it. Impossible to trill to the same note… also, I would need to replace the “trill” by “bisb.” May be the interval of “1” “perfect” should just use the same note Yan ---
**Author:** ![jpfranklin](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/jpfranklin/32/170098_2.png) [@jpfranklin](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/jpfranklin)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/14 "2022-09-23T08:12:21Z")
> [@maresz](#): > > … also, I would need to replace the “trill” by “bisb.” Hi all, is there a solution to the timbral trill? I’m having this issue right now also … I’m in 24TET and there is no ‘1 Augmented’ interval … !? Any help is greatly appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![dspreadbury](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/dspreadbury/32/328687_2.png) [@dspreadbury](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/dspreadbury)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/15 "2022-09-24T19:59:38Z")
What notation are you looking for? What do you want to appear, in addition to the trill sign and its wiggly line? ---
**Author:** ![Derrek](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/derrek/32/92034_2.png) [@Derrek](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Derrek)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/16 "2022-09-24T23:27:10Z")
I think @maresz wants to use the trill function for harp notation between two enharmonic pitches. My recollection is that one usually notates this as a tremolo. ---
**Author:** ![maresz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@maresz](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/maresz)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 5:31am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/17 "2022-09-25T05:31:15Z")
Yes usually. But I notate trills with any interval for many years now and it’s very efficient. Let’s not be so conservative with notational issues. Let us be creative ! ---
**Author:** ![Derrek](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/derrek/32/92034_2.png) [@Derrek](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/Derrek)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/18 "2022-09-25T11:18:44Z")
Why would you assume I was being critical? ---
**Author:** ![jpfranklin](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/jpfranklin/32/170098_2.png) [@jpfranklin](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/jpfranklin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/19 "2022-10-04T06:05:53Z")
![Screen Shot 2022-10-04 at 5.05.23 pm](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/d/9/d9b6cba69d1c8e44c05fbd9067a37da0befda6f9.png) I’m hoping to have a small bracketed note at the same pitch to indicate a timbral trill to the same note (altered fingering). Many thanks! ---
**Author:** ![anderstr](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/user_avatar/forums.steinberg.net/anderstr/32/330_2.png) [@anderstr](https://forums.steinberg.net/u/anderstr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 6:49am UTC](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480/20 "2022-10-04T06:49:42Z")
Dorico wont show a trill to the the same pitch unless you do a notehead change to the auxiliary note first. Make sure to have trill appearance set to “auxiliary note” either in engraving options or the properties panel. Then choose any other interval than a unison. Select the pitch, go to Edit-Notations-Notehead and change to “Default Noteheads”. Then you should be able to make the auxiliary note appear when choosing a unison. In Dorico 3.5 and previous versions, you could access the notehead sets through the context menu, but in Dorico 4 you have to go through the menu line and edit menu on the top of the screen. There is options for setting specific noteheads through custom key commands. [Next page](https://forums.steinberg.net/t/enharmonic-trills/740480.md?page=2)