Experienced Engineer Impressions as a Wavelab Newbie

I’m coming from Sequoia the last 6 years and there is much to like.
Using Montage only, numerous singles to full-length albums so far without much trouble. A good start.
There’s always a PDF manual open while working but my Wavelab skillset is growing by way of working, not from extensive time spent ‘schooling’ on the app.

Here are things that bother me, or I don’t understand yet, and I hope some of you might have enlightened suggestions about them.

1 - Using CD-Wizard to create track indexes, sometimes markers (not track indexes) are created for non-existent clips later in the timeline, beyond the last track of the project. They have to be deleted via ‘delete selected marker’ lest, unnoticed, can cause a render’s track count to be wrong. It’s a time waster when I don’t catch it before rendering a full album. And yes, it’s markers being created during the CD-Wizard process, not the result of an overlooked marker.

2 - ‘Moving Selected Markers’ doesn’t always work, sometimes at all, sometimes doesn’t always move the selected markers by the amount chosen, or doesn’t always move all selected markers the same amount. All indexes are unlocked, none at 00:00. I end up moving them manually, a time waster. Closing and re-opening the Montage and/or App. sometimes corrects the issue but not always.

3- Is there a way to fine-adjust volume and automation points while mousing? Mistakenly raising or lowering a clip’s gain when tweaking a fade-in/out, or an automation parameter, is maddeningly crude. Is there a fine adjust key command?

4 - I wish we could have more than 3 Ref tracks, or, have Wavelab know to ignore an audio track when making markers and indexes, or rendering.

5 - I miss a draggable zoom tool after years in Pro Tools, Logic and Sequoia, all of which have that ability.

Ok there. My moaning is done.
Perhaps some of you wiser and more experienced users can advise me through my present ignorance.

There is a nudge function, maybe that can be useful?

Not sure what you mean, because WaveLab has so many ways to zoom. The easiest and more direct one, being to point the time ruler and drag up and down. Something the software you mention, don’t have, IIRC.

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Got the zoomer. Phew!

I’ve never experienced this in my 15 years of using WaveLab. I would suggest taking a screen shot next time it happens, as well as a screen shot of the CD Wizard settings you used.

Because of my workflow I haven’t had an issue with this aside from one time recently. I forget what I was doing but I do remember wishing there was a way to define which track was used when the CD Wizard decides which clips to use to generate the CD Track Markers.

Maybe an option can be added for that.

I’ll do that. It’s been so busy it doesn’t cross my mind but yea, I should and will, and post pics.

The zooming is amazing now that I’ve done some basic homework. Thank you, PG!

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Just curious: What are your reasons for switching to WaveLab?

I first became interested watching Justin’s vid’s concerning multi-format export of finished work using Duplicate (Recreate Audio Files) Montage, far more efficient than anything my Sequoia 13.340 offers (upgrade to newest Sequoia $590 annually, $2600 perpetual I believe). Thorough file metadata potential, emphasis on VST 3 and external editor integration are also superior to Sequoia. As is obvious by my original post, I dove right in with client work and haven’t spent the time necessary to ‘make Wavelab mine’ (as my zooming ignorance shows) but I’m convinced it’s the right decision. I look forward to a break from work and having time to better learn the app, and streamlining usage. BTW, I’ve recorded identical signal paths in both app’s. Wavelab nulls-to-zero against Sequoia. For all my complaints about Sequoia, I’ve always liked the app’s sound, I suppose attributable to their drivers. Nulling against Wavelab is a big positive. I did buy Magix 'Essential FX" package to get their fantastic de-esser, which I was missing a lot. Still my favorite de-esser, designed by Sascha Eversmeir, who brought the code from his Spitfish de-esser to Magix during his stint coding there.


That’s nice to hear.

From my perspective, obviously starting later than you, there were things I consider easy in WL that were rather obfuscated in the demo of Samplitude that kept me from buying it. Plus some advantages, but…on balance, WL is basically what I started on and the only thing I’ve used seriously. There are little things in Reaper that I would like and use, but…meh.

For #3, there is, but not with the mouse that I’m aware of. When you go to the list of markers in the Automation/Envelope view for a clip, you can type the level in with numbers, and you can select/highlight and use the arrow keys for the time (or type them). It may be a personal thing, but I strongly prefer that to any “fine” mouse control I’ve ever used if/when I need to be that precise.

The software-independent way to do it is with a gaming mouse that has a “precision aiming” feature…usually an extra button that you can hold which shifts the resolution of the mouse by some huge factor. The advantage of getting used to doing it that way is that it literally works everywhere, on every OS, in every application…because it’s happening inside the mouse hardware. I have an elecom trackball that does that, and I really like it.

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Justin and PG, Simple ITB album of 13 songs. Song 1 manually placed 200ms after 00:00. Subsequent pauses set to my liking. Did CD Wizard with settings seen in the pic. Next, moved all markers -200ms (all highlighted/selected in the marker list) . Index 1 moved -200ms to 00:00 as expected. The remaining 12 either didn’t move at all and a couple moved around 12ms as seen in one of the pics. What am I missing here?

The move function does not work on highlighted markers, but either on all markers (your choice in the dialog), or on markers within the selected audio range.

It’s hard to see a big picture of what you have going on but as far as I know, the CD Wizard only creates red markers which are CD Track Start, CD Track Splice, or CD Track End markers.

In your “Move Multiple Markers” image, you have the orange CD Track Index box selected, and red CD Track Start, but that’s it.

I’m guessing the other markers moved by ~12ms due to the quantization option being on.

Again, there is not really quite enough info here to help, especially if you are using my CD Wizard and Move Multiple Markers presets because I really only use the red CD Track Start/Splice/End markers that the CD Wizard creates. I don’t really know what an orange CD Track Index marker does in real life. Maybe you mean to use a CD Track Spice Marker here? A CD Track Splice Marker is just an end and start maker glued together so there is just one marker to manage instead of two.

Redid the process. Pic 1 shows the CD Wizard settings zoomed to song 1. Pic 2 same location after Move Selected Markers, Track Start marker correctly moved to 00:00. Pic 3 is song 2’s marker unmoved as are all subsequent Track Start markers. Only song 1 marker is moving.

You need to also select “CD Track Splice Markers” in the Move Multiple Markers dialogue box for those markers to move.

I would uncheck to move the CD Track End Marker or you’ll risk chopping off the last 200ms of your last song when rendering.

Aside from the first song, all the other songs start with a CD Track Splice Marker which is good, but you’re currently not asking for those markers to be moved.

It’s important to understand the difference between CD Track Start, CD Track Splice, and CD Track End Markers.

My suggestion is to have the first song be a CD Track Start Marker, the rest of the songs be CD Track Splice Markers, and the end of the last song be a CD Track End Marker.

The CD Wizard can do this automatically.

Thank you, JP. Just what I needed.

No problem. It’s important to note the difference between the 3 CD Marker Types:

  1. CD Track Start
  2. CD Track Splice
  3. CD Track End

These red CD marker types are the only 3 markers I use in 99.999999999% of my work. I don’t use any other marker types.

To have a valid montage for CD (and other work), the first marker in the montage must be a CD Track Start Marker, and the very last marker after the last song must be a CD Track End Marker.

The rest of the markers for songs can be a CD Track Splice Marker which I suggest using to avoid rendering issues and audio missing between the traditional end/start marker approach for each song. CD Track Splice Marker is the way to go. I never do the thing where a track end with a CD Track End Marker, and then there is space between that the nexts CD Start Marker. It’s a recipe for something to go wrong. CD Track Splice Markers are the way.

The CD Wizard can create what you need using my JP Start preset. It will make a CD Track Marker at the start of the first clip, CD Track Splice Markers for the start of the rest of the songs/clips, and then it will place a CD Track End marker after the last song.

When I’m mastering “in the box” and/or have situations where I have trimmed the clips tight to the start of the first note or downbeat, then I use “Move Multiple Markers” to offset the first CD Track Start Marker and all the CD Track Splice Markers from the start of the clip by X amount. I purposely do not move the CD Track End Marker because I don’t want it to move and risk cutting off the tail end of the last song. I also double check that the first CD Track Start marker is at 0:00 and if not, I manually put it there.

The JP Start presets in the CD Wizard and Move Multiple Markers should do all this for you.

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Excellent. Working now. Thanks for the info, Justin.

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Now that my dumb ass has properly looked into various Zooming capabilities I’m blown away how great the various zoom capabilities are.