Question concerning Output Busses.
I have a hybrid setup like the following:
Many tracks (both analog and midi/instrument sound libraries) that are then routed to 28 stereo Master Groups.
Then, 28 stereo Master Groups routed to 28 stereo Output Busses that are connected to 56 DA converters (Burl MS) that then go to 28 stereo summing amp inputs.
Output of summing amp goes to a Neve MBP, outboard EQ, and then back to a stereo AD converter that is then read by the Cubase Input Buss and goes to a stereo channel where I apply the final mastering plugs and Dithering before being routed to a Stereo output for final DA conversion and then speakers for listening to the final master chain mixdown. Everything works and sounds awesome and I like being able to see the meters on the Output Busses (and input Buss coming back) so that I can verify at a glance the workflow. I can quickly verify by looking at the summing amp and MBP and EQ that the summing amp is receiving signal as well.
The problem is that when I Export the Mixdown (using Locators and the usual Export settings) I no longer see any input on the summing amp or subsequent MBP and EQ.
However, I still see the that the Output Buss meters show signal.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do to get the Output Busses to send their respective signals out of Cubase 11 and into the 56 DA converters?
Thank you in advance for any help or ideas.
-Gene
NOTE: I have run the suggested setup that Ralphie outlined years back (use Fx External sends as plugins on the master groups instead of routing them to Output Busses).
This works awesome and I have had no issues Exporting Mixdowns whatsoever - but for some reason going to Cubase 11 started losing audio connections on the 56 Fx External sends quite regularly and reconnecting them by hand got to the point where I decided to try checking out using Output Busses since I can save the Output Busses settings as a preset.
Is anyone using Cubase Output Busses to send out to a summing amp? If yes, then are you able to export the mixdown at the same time? I am wondering if my issue is just the way that Cubase 11 is coded and that if the Output Busses are connected to (in my case to Rednet PCIEr card channels) then those connections are simply disabled during Export Mixdown.
Anyone doing a hybrid setup like this?
Thanks,
-Gene
Hi,
Do you export in Real Time, please?
Hi Martin.
Yes, I do not export offline ever.
I believe at the core of this issue is that the Output Busses get disconnected from the D/A interface (in my case Rednet PCIEr card and then Burl Mothership). When I am not doing an actual Export it all flows correctly to my summing amp and Neve MBP, and then comes back in to Cubase via Rednet/Burl A/D on a stereo Input Buss, which I then use for the input of a stereo track which I then have final inserts for mastering/dithering. I then send that stereo track back out of Cubase back thru the Rednet/Burl D/A to my near field monitors. That all works and sounds wonderful! But the act of then Exporting the project turns off the Output Busses and I do not see any input on my external hardware (Neve MBP, EQ) - even though the Output Buss meters still show activity. This is strange!
Please let me know if there is anything I can provide further and thanks for the response!
-Gene
Hi Martin.
Yes, I do not export offline ever.
I have always exported in Real Time.
I believe at the core of this issue is that the Output Busses get disconnected from the D/A interface (in my case Rednet PCIEr card and then Burl Mothership). When I am not doing an actual Export it all flows correctly to my summing amp and Neve MBP, and then comes back in to Cubase via Rednet/Burl A/D on a stereo Input Buss, which I then use for the input of a stereo track which I then have final inserts for mastering/dithering. I then send that stereo track back out of Cubase back thru the Rednet/Burl D/A to my near field monitors. That all works and sounds wonderful! But the act of then Exporting the project turns off the Output Busses and I do not see any input on my external hardware (Neve MBP, EQ) - even though the Output Buss meters still show activity. This is strange!
Please let me know if there is anything I can provide further and thanks for the response!
-Gene
Hi,
Could you attach your Export Audio Mixdown settings, please?
Thanks Martin.
Here are some screen shots of my setup.
Please note that my Rednet PCIEr buffer is huge for mixing down thru the near fields hence the large latency shown in the images. When I export, the Output Buss meters still show activity, but my summing amp does not so something happens between listening to the summing amp coming back and doing an export.
-Gene
Hi Martin. Any update on this issue?
Thanks,
-Gene
Hi everyone.
Please help if able - let me rephrase the question in a basic setup.
- I have a stereo audio track that is routed to Output Buss 1/2 which works correctly when playing (ie: it goes thru a BURL D/A converter and then flips the meters on my external hardware mixer).
- I also have other audio tracks routed to the Stereo Output which work correctly when playing
- When I Export the Audio Mixdown I no longer see the meters move on my external hardware mixer.
- When I close the Export Audio Mixdown dialog, everything plays correctly and I can see the meters move on my external mixer.
- Conclusion: Cubase 12 Pro (Windows 11) is dynamically disabling the Output Busses during the Export Audio Mixdown.
Question: Why, and is there a way to stop this from happening?
Thanks,
-Gene
Yes, I think it’s been working like that and there isn’t any way to make it work as you want. It only enables outputs that are needed for the export, I am not sure about the reason.
Though, usually, I have no problems with it. Are you using the control room mixer? What is the main problem of not having unrelated output enabled in your case?
Hi Takashi.
I have an external summing mixer that use. I send up to 26 stereo pairs to it via 26 stereo Output Busses (I have a BURL MotherShip).
Then the summing mixer’s left/right stero output goes to an external Neve Master Buss Processor, and then back to two BURL A/D converters which go back to Cubase. I can then take that stereo input and use it to create a stereo audio track. I then take that stereo WAV file and bring it into Wavelab Pro for mastering. This works just fine.
What changed is I started using the Cubase Arranger Track. Unfortunately, when the various Arranger Track sections are played, the actual cursor position obviously moves around in a non-linear fashion which makes trying to record that final stereo track impossible (and in fact doing so makes Cubase stop the actual recording). So I looked into Exporting the Arranger Track mix and noticed that all of the Output Busses would not send anything out to the summing mixer.
I have seen a plugin called MRecorder that I can insert onto the stereo track coming back into Cubase that claims it will write out a WAV file that I could use, but I am dubious about whether the WAV file that it produces is actually high end audio or not. I would rather be able to export the Arranger Track if possible but having the Output Busses disable makes that impossible. I also thought maybe I could just play the Arranger Track and have Wavelab Pro somehow grab the output and use that as a real-time input, but even if I could get that to work I think that is a strange workaround. I could also flatten the Arranger Track Chain (using the create new project option) but for large projects doing so takes a bit of time so is not an ideal solution.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
-Gene
OK. The reason why I knew this behaviour was the same as your setup, whenever I use an external desk I used to do similar.
But how about this setup, I do this these days when I use a real desk to externally mix and receive it back to cubendo.
Try creating 26 stereo external effects, connect outputs goes to the desk and leave inputs not connected to any A/D, i.e. external effect 1 has outputs 1 & 2 connected and no input connected, make as many pairs you have. Create 26 groups and insert those into the last post-fader slot (the pan on the group channel is post everything so it won’t work, this is the only drawback really.). Route groups to vst mixer’s master as usual.
Then create yet another stereo external effect and for this connect only the input return from the Neve, and insert this to the master, before or after master plugins that’s up to your choice.
Whatever tracks you send to one of the groups will go out to the desk and then returns to the master external effect.
This setup has a lot of benefits over the conventional output → input setup like the one you described. When you want to bypass the whole desk and the compressor, you can just press bypass on the master efx. Also if you don’t have a desk, you can still hear them all by bypassing efx in the groups. You can export from the master as if you are mixing itb, no need to record, so the arranger track will work.
And I think, it will send ‘unrelated’ tracks to the desk when it is exporting from a group because the group is mixed at the master in cubase as well. I am not 100% sure about this, you should really try and check.
Thank you Takashi for your suggestion. I had tried that in previous Cubase versions and it works very well with the caveat that if you turn off Delay Compensation I believe all the FX channels will stop working for the reason that since they never return (since they are externally summed and don’t actually come back individually) I think Cubase thinks they have an infinite latency and disables them when “Delay Compensation” has been turned off. Not a big deal but I use a lot of Soothe/Spiff/Gullfoss (and other large latency & CPU intensive plugins) and it is nice sometimes to turn off Delay Compensation when working on projects that are pushing the CPU limit as part of the work flo. I also noted that Cubase 11 would lose the External FX out of the actual Audio Connections TAB and I would have to go and reestablish them - aggravating!!!. I will try your suggestion in Cubase 12 Pro and status back when I can test it out!
Thank you once again for taking the time to write out such a detailed explanation!
I doubt that most Cubase folks are power users like this but for those that do hybrid setups this information is golden!
-Gene
You should try again, the setup works with delay compensation, it’s not anything related to the trick. You can insert any buffered plugins anywhere even to those groups or master and it works no problem since very early versions of cubendo, perhaps those groups weren’t connected to master that breaks pdc.
If you measure DA to AD trip time with the ping function, you can set the delay amount to all the send instances, then signal goes out to the desk and signal directly sent to the master will be aligned, too.
You previous attempt might had some misconfiguration, I guess.
Did you really try the one way external effects way? As said, for sends you only connect outputs and for return only inputs. Maybe you just only tried to change groups outputs to DAs?
I’ll help you step by step if you see any problems, there are many tips but once you set them all up correctly, it will work perfect. So please try again.
