Expression and Drum-Maps mangled in BBCSO PRO Template (partially solved)

Hi Dorico Team,
In the BBCSO Percussion map the keyswitches and the Notes seem to be mangled.
Leads to funny dynmaics as keyswitches are always played at Velocity >100.

Could you please confirm ?

Regards Ilja

dynamics are controlled by the Expression Map BBCSO Unpitched Percussion. The percussion maps map the individual notes to instruments/techniques so I’m not quite sure what you mean here? And which BBCSO template as there are three versions? I’ve only used 3 or 4 non-pitched percussion instruments so far in my BBC Core but they seem to work more or less as expected – which is not necessarily to say there are no errors as there have been one or two threads on this previously if my memory serves me correctly.

I am using BBCSO PRO…

Here is how I fixed it.
Thank God doricolib is XML format.
When sending the “Articulation” as a keyswitch it is always played at the technical velocity the Keyswitches are sent.
So any velocity based dynamics is ignored.

See attached my fix tested for the BASS Drums.
I also added a little Test-Flow to reproduce my issues.

Regards (945 KB)
OLDMACILLI_QuickFix_BBCSO_Unpitched (3.66 KB)

the Unpitched Percussion EM uses CC1 and CC11 and not velocity – at least on my map – so I’d have though this shouldn’t be an issue. Anyway, it’s good to see you’ve fixed it and yes, it’s useful that XML is used in these maps if you really need to get down to the nitty-gritty.

Sorry but this is not right. In my version 1.1.9 of the BBCSO player the Tenor drums and the Bass drums use velocity. Never the less it is simply wrong to map the sound generating key-press to the key-switch field in percussion map.

we seem to be at cross purposes here. Below is what I’m referring to.

No we are not. Concerning BBCSO Pro the EM and the PM need a patch to make the rolls work.
Try Tambourine and Gran Cassa. Rolls and normal hits behave differently.
Double checked it on an OSX Installation.

Hey Co-Workers.
Could somebody please test/verify my approach?

OK, I’m beginning to see what you’re getting at. The few instruments I’ve actually used all use CC’s for dynamics but that’s obviously not the case across the board. If velocity is not specifically set, it always defaults to 100 – that’s how Dorico works and it’s in the manual. I can also confirm that velocity is indeed ignored if the dynamic controller is set to velocity – thus your fix.

But in what I typically use such as triangle, tam tam and cymbals, the dynamic level appears to be too high in general relative to the Dorico marking and the CC1/11 sliders need to be right down for quiet. When playing live through a MIDI keyboard, the scaling seems more natural. I’m so used to having to adjust dynamics that I hadn’t paid too much attention to this as my work with the BBC SO so far hasn’t called for much use of unpitched percussion.

I suggest that if no-one else contributes to this thread (I’m sure somewhere there have been one or two other discussions around this), then contact John Barron who programmed the playback template with your findings.

Also the Harp and the Tubular Bells normally react on Velocity.
Only bisbiglando and Tremoplo agan react on CC1 Modwheel.
See Attached the corrected Expression-Maps (3.28 KB)

strictly speaking, Harp default reacts to both CC and velocity (though with somewhat different curves) but bisbiglando and tremolo react only to CC. I expect that’s what you meant. I agree that the behaviour is not what you might expect and thus urge you to get in touch with John. I already discussed one or two aspects of the template with him such as legato v long with the strings and whether velocity is best for short articulations as programmed (it is in most cases I’ve tested). I’ve made one or two changes to the original map as have you but in my work, getting the strings right is far more complex and more important than unpitched percussion. it may be that your priorities are different.