Expression map - how to end playing techinque

After experimenting a bit with the expression maps, I’ve encountered yet a different problem.

I have a classical guitar score. Replaced the default HSSE patch with Halion 5 - Studio Nylon Classical Guitar patch, which has several keyswitches for harmonics, muted (dead) notes, slides…
I’ve imported the expression map from Cubase.

It does work but once I type in a playing technique e.g. harmonics, it does not switch back to natural default sound (keyswitch), and keeps playing everything like harmonics.

So how do I end a playing technique to make it play the default natural keyswitch?

Oddly if I reassign the harmonics as staccato in the expression map setup, only the notes with staccato symbols play back as harmonics, which is a wanted behaviour. I’d like to achieve this with playing techniques.

I think the NATURAL technique has to be present and be configured by KS and/or controller to point to whatever is the library’s default sound. I discovered that for strings the term “arco” will trigger “Natural”. I’m not near Dorico atm (Actually I am, but the dongle is in the studio 2 floors up…) but I would look in the guitar specific playing techniques and try one that looks like a default sound :slight_smile:

There is a “natural” keyswitch configured and it is a default keyswitch for that instrument.

I’ve tried the “natural” from common playing techniques and also “arco”, which as you say works for the string instruments.
But still no luck.

Thanks for your tips, anyway.

I would certainly expect “natural” to work to cancel harmonics. Could you attach your project here (zipped up) so that we can take a look?

Hi Daniel.

Here it is. Thank you for having a look.
Expression map.zip (478 KB)

Just a thought… what happens if you shorten the note before nat. (i.e. insert a rest) ?

misohoza, Paul has confirmed that the problem with harmonic not being cancelled by nat. is a bug, and he’ll look at it as soon as he can. Sorry for the inconvenience in the meantime.

Thank you Daniel.

Yes, I’ve read Paul’s post about expression maps status.
No worries. At least I know it’s a bug and not just me doing something wrong.

I do not doubt that his is a Dorico bug, but the reason I mentioned inserting a rest was that many VSTs have an inherent latency when it comes to switching articulations in rapid succession. So often the VST is to blame, rather than the application sending the switches…

I’ve been fiddling around with Garritan JABB and it works fine except for the same issue as above. Changing to different mutes works fine in the brass but I can’t go back to “open”. All other KS’s works fine except the “Open” (KS 36 on trp)

…which leads me to the playing techniques.

• As I mentioned in another post, there must be an option to write with text as “Harmon mute”, “Harmon mute, half stem”, “Harmon mute, no stem” and “Harmon mute w. stem”. Those small symbols are not standard in jazz-notation and no one recognizes them. They are also so small that you can’t see them 1 meter from the part.

Yes, that makes sense. I did try what you suggested in your previous post. But it didn’t make a difference in this case, so I didn’t reply.

Thanks anyway.

Why on earth are keyswitches set with the MIDI note number instead of note name (as it is in Cubase). I have no idea what note a given number is.

Apparently not everyone agrees on note names–whether middle C is C4 or C3. My suggestion is to give the letter name followed by the MIDI number in parentheses, but I’m not sure how much support there is for this solution. I, too, would like to have something in addition to MIDI numbers to work with since I input MIDI values with a keyboard.

Middle C = note 60. So the lower C’s are 48, 36, 24, 12, 0.

At least note numbers don’t suffer from the ambiguous “is Middle C called C3, C4, or even C5” problem.

When some instruction tells me a particular percussion instrument is MIDI note number 33, I can probably figure out the octave on my keyboard but knowing the letter name of the note would relieve me of the need to count downward from middle-C or some other reference point I need to memorize.

For HALion, and others that use the middle C = C3 convention, you may find this table useful: https://freaksolid.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/midi_note_values.jpg

The way I always remember it is that: the octaves begin from C, and the C notes are multiples of 12, middle C is about half-way through the range (MIDI range of 0-127, and the closest multiple of 12 to the halfway point is 60), hence middle C=60. But that may not be quite as intuitive to everyone else…

Thank you for the table, but breaking away from writing to open and lookup a MIDI value (or try to memorize the table) is more trouble than a display that uses “C (60)” when specifying a note (which will likely be important as Dorico moves into percussion mapping as well as expression mapping key switches).

This is something that we may review in the future.

Paul, I know you guys are swamped with things to review and update. I also know you figure I’m about to lay a “but” on you. I hate to add to the clamor of voices claiming your attention, but you are correct.

This matter of MIDI note numbers versus C3 type notes in order to accommodate the varying designations of middle C seems to me far more important than “we may review it in the future.”

Surely the best solution from a customer point of view would be to have the user select his own middle C designation (C3 or C4 being the most common) either globally or for each project. As suggested above, having to calculate just what note is intended every time you want to specify a keyswitch in an Expression Map would be a MAJOR time-and-effort waster. From a programmer’s standpoint it may seem trivial and optional, but from a customer point of view to me it is central to the usability of Expression Maps. It ought to be on a short list of required Expression Map improvements.

As a user of VSL and VI Pro individual mappings in my Cubase Expression Maps often include three keyswitches, one to select from among VI Pro matrices, and two to select the X column and Y row within a matrix. That’s a LOT of keys to translate for an entire Expression Map, and I imagine most users would consider MIDI note numbers to be a foreign language. I’m sure there are many VSL users among your customers. I’m fairly certain a majority of them who use Expression Maps would feel as I do (though I’m open to correction on this).

Best wishes as you all sort through your update priorities, but I hope this problem is moved in priority from “may” to “must.”

We realise that some of these things may be painful at the moment, but do please remember that we have an enormous amount to do and we have to make some tough decisions about how we spend the finite time we have to give the most value to the highest number of users. There is a huge amount to do on the playback of techniques, and without this it’s kind of irrelevant how good the UI is :slight_smile:

However, of course it’s very important to us that we create the best experience we can for our users, and when I saw ‘review’, I mean ‘think in more detail about’.