Expression map - specific & general questions

Specific question: I’m setting up xp maps for VSL SSE, currently looking at the trumpet. I’ve set up a patch that keyswitches between muted and open. In the score I picked ‘mute’ from the Common list. In the expression map it corresponds to, I picked ‘muted’. This combination works on playback. However, for ‘open’ from the common list, there is no corresponding ‘open’, only ‘open 1’ and ‘open 2’. Neither of these work. What should I be looking for?

General question: can one access the setup for things like this? To amend the levels of F/P etc, for instance (if I wanted to do that).

Try “nat.”

If you can see the attached pic, Mute/Open is in one column; the next column is identical for both options, and for me, ‘natural’ is C#1/C2, long notes sustain. That’s what ‘natural’ corresponds to in my KS list, and I want it to work the same whether instrument is muted or open, in terms of just not being anything else.

If I understand you correctly, you need to make sure that mute, open and nat. are all included in the same mutual exclusion group in your expression map. To find out which playback playing technique corresponds to the playing technique you see in the panel in Write mode and that appears in your score, hover over its icon in the panel: the tooltip will show you which playback playing technique it will produce. You can also look it up directly in Engrave > Playing Techniques.

Thanks Daniel, that (under Engrave) is not where I would have thought to look. Nevertheless, it is still not working.

Try setting the “open” playing technique appearance to produce the playback playing technique of “natural” instead of either “open 1” or “open 2”.

FWIW, using “con sord.” and “senza sord.” in the score worked fine with muted and open1 for me… I don’t have the SY version, but just verified it with the VI version :slight_smile:

PS: don’t bake the muted or unmuted state into the Natural technique…

along the same lines, suppose I want to access the “short” articulation in VSLSE+ strings. I can create a new playing technique “short” in Write mode but this doesn’t exist in the playback playing technique list so there seems to be no way to tell the Expression Map which keyswitch/control change combination to use. It seems that you can add the text for a new playing technique but not a new playing technique itself? Either that or I am fundamentally misunderstanding something!

You can create a new playback playing technique that you can use in expression maps via the Engrave > Playing Techniques dialog.

as far as I can see, the “Edit Playing techniques” dialogue is the same whether accessed from ENGRAVE or WRITE. You can add a playing technique label called anything under the sun and add it to the score but what is played back is the “playback playing technique” which is not necessarily the same as simply the name for this technique. In other words, I can create a technique called “short” and write it in the score but if I set it to playback pizzicato, it will indeed play back pizzicato. You only select from the existing “playback playing technique(s)” from the pop down as far as I can see and “short” does not get added to them just because you create a new label “short”. So please, Daniel, explain what exactly do do to trigger the technique listed in the Expression Map if it’s possible.

In the Edit Playing Techniques panel, click the “Edit” button to the right of “Playback playing technique” and a sub-panel pops up. You can then create a new Playback Playing Technique name and add it to the list (click the + button).

You define what the new Playback Playing Technique does by editing an Expression Map in Play mode, and assigning it to the appropriate Midi channel in a VST instrument.

If a Playback Playing Technique is not defined in an expression map, it is assumed to be the same as the Natural technique (which can cause surprises if Natural is misused do to things which really should be separate playback techniques, e.g. cancelling mutes etc)

got you – I had got as far as clicking on the “Edit” button but missed that there was an “add” within this edit when I previously looked at this. May seem illogicial but after all, that’s also how you add a technique in the first place so I should have been more observant! Many thanks, Rob.

PS a bit of fiddling and I can get this particular example to work properly for real. By adding an exclusion group, I can eliminate the need for a reset ord between detache and short for instance-- in Sibelius the requirement to reset or not is something which still remains unclear to me at times. Beginning to get the hang of this so that when the native Dorico maps arrive, I’ll be more prepared for any required tweaking!
Any idea when this might be – thought I remembered reading a couple of weeks back that we should be getting something within a month? The SE Cubase map is pretty functional but the same cannot unfortunately be said for the full string libraries.

I agree it’s a bit hidden, because if you want to use an existing Playback Technique you can select if from the drop down list without using the “edit” button at all.

FWIW originally, I thought you had to create the Playback Techniques first in the Expression Maps, before you could assign Playing Techniques to them. It was more fun learning how to use Dorico before there was any documentation :slight_smile:

Yeah, that was lots of fun. On the other hand, no one asking a question here was told to “just read the manual.” :slight_smile:

In some ways, the pre-manual days helped make this forum what it has become–no slight to Daniel’s and the rest of the Team’s influence or to the benefit of having Lillie’s manuals available.

Back to me, what seems to be happening is that on sending Mute, the key switch is sent and held down. When the Open instruction is received, it is releasing the Mute key, but not striking the key switch for Open.

Yes, I noticed similar oddities… Sometimes I feel Dorico is trying too hard to be the smartest kid on the Block… :laughing: more later…

[EDIT:] FWIW, I’m attaching a small project for VEP7 & VI Pro. There are 2 matrices (one for open and one for muted trumpet) with identical layout of the articulations (techniques). The Xmap has a mutual exclusion group for the muted and open1 PPTs. It’s not obvious to me why Dorico still seems to require the double articulations in order to operate the muted matrix…
VSL-TRP.zip (389 KB)

@fratveno: thanks. Unfortunately I don’t have VI pro - it’s what I thought I was buying when I got Ensemble pro :slight_smile:

However, it is beginning to dawn on me what the function of mutual exclusion groups is. Happy days! I implemented a ‘muting’ group following your example, and it seems to work.

Next problem: I have a similar switching issue with the full VI harp 2, for which I’ve made a 2-matrix setup for the two Level 2 combi sets. So for example, bisbigliando is on the second matrix, pres de la table on the first. The switch doesn’t cancel bisbig and implement pdlt; logically, there isn’t a mutual exclusion there – I guess you could ask a harpist to play a bisbig p.d.l.t.