Expression maps not working?

[Sebastian_Alvarez]

I saw the Dom Sigalas video on Expression Maps in Cubase 15 and I gave it a try, because I liked the feature where creating a new map has an option to import the articulations. I don’t use these maps often because I don’t have the time to start programming them with the OT libraries which is what I use the most.

So I saw how Don does it with Iconica Sketch, and I followed his steps, then recorded something just messing around with the keyboard, and pressing the keyswitches to try just a few articulations. Then I opened the recorded part in the key editor, and the articulations lane. My only experience with expression maps was with the Audiobro MSS, which come with excellent DAW integration, with its own expression maps that you load and you’re set. So I was used to that, and to select a group of notes, pull down the insanely long list, and choose what I wanted:

But when I started playing what I had recorded, which started with sustain and then changed to staccato, and then legato (which I saw reflected on the sound slots lane), it never switched to anything else, it kept playing the short notes in sustain.

Even more confusing was that when I selected a group of notes, I only had two choices as you can see below.

So I created another instrument track, this time with Opus, loaded the Violins 1 KS from the Hollywood Orchestra, and to my surprise, it had the load articulations checkmark. That would great because I also use Eastwest stuff a lot.

But the result was the same, it kept playing whatever the first articulation was even after switching to Staccato and other short ones. And if I select a group of notes, the Articulations drop down list has only one:

And it doesn’t seem to work anyway. In fact, if I open the group in the articulations lane, and I manually change a note to another articulation (if there is a way to do that for more than one note at a time please tell me it seems ridiculous to have to change one at a time, but I haven’t found it), it still doesn’t play the notes with the chosen articulation.

So after all this, I created another track with Kontakt 7 to load the Modern Scoring Strings, loaded the Violins with DAW integration, then loaded the .expressionmap file from the MSS installation folder, and it works perfectly fine.

So am I doing something wrong, is the integration with Iconica Sketch and Opus not complete?

[beerbong]

The drop down selection menu only works with the Attribute type articulations, same as C14.

[JDTune]

It seems to be a Latch Mode switch bug - go into Expression Map Setup and switch it off and it should play.

cheers,

JDTune

[Sebastian_Alvarez]

@beerbong

The drop down selection menu only works with the Attribute type articulations, same as C14.

Sorry, what are those?

[JDTune]

As per the cubase 15 Pro manual:

Articulation Types
Articulations define how specific notes are sung or performed on a given instrument. They can also define the relative volume of notes or the changes in pitch.
Cubase includes two types of articulations:
• Directions, such as pizzicato, are valid for all notes, from their insert position to the insert
position of the next direction. If you add mutual exclusion groups, directions are valid until
the next direction in the same group. Directions are applied to a continuous range of notes,
or to an entire piece of music, and are mostly text.
• Attributes, such as accents, or staccato, are valid for single notes. Attributes are mostly
note-attached symbols.

Hope this helps.

JDTune

[Sebastian_Alvarez]

Thanks! So if I understand correctly, the Directions kind is the one where articulations are triggered by keyswitches, and they stay that way until the next keyswitch, while the Attributes kind is something you have to setup and you can assign it to individual notes or groups of them.

But they take quite some time to put together, right? Meaning, the Audiobro people that have that insanely long list of articulations in the drop down list, they spent weeks or months putting them together for all the instruments I’m guessing.

[JDTune]

You can trigger all articulations via a key switch regardless of type (direction or attribute) if set up in the expression map to use key switches.

cheers,

JDTune

[mducharme]

@Sebastian_Alvarez keep in mind that you don’t have to use the articulations drop down in the info bar at all. There are new drop downs in the articulations lane when it is in collapsed state, and those include both attributes and directions.

[Sebastian_Alvarez]

Good to know. I hardly ever use Expression Maps, because it just takes too long to make them. In the case of the Modern Scoring Strings, they come with an Expression Maps file that you can load and it gives you that long drop down list that I showed above, so when I use them, I select a group of notes, and assign an articulation from that drop down list. Seems like a pretty simple way to do it.

[mducharme]

@Sebastian_Alvarez

Seems like a pretty simple way to do it.

It is, but there are a few problems with it. The list can get quite big as you saw, and it doesn’t include directions, and this unnecessarily pushes users towards using attributes for everything, which is bad for those who care about a correct looking score in the score editor. Correct score appearance depends on using a mix of directions and attributes depending on how it should show up in the score. So, I’m hoping we might see a better solution at some point in the future, to avoid having to choose between this easy selection mechanism in the info bar and correct score appearance.

[Sebastian_Alvarez]

@mducharme

The list can get quite big as you saw

Well, they know that, so they have different expression maps, some with the full list, some with the most used articulations, and other specific ones.

Regardless, I doubt that I will start creating those lists anyway. As it is, every time I start a new mockup I just open the track in the key editor, draw a C0 across the whole thing (I merge all the regions because I don’t like having separate MIDI regions in the same track), then I make cuts with Alt and mouse clicks, and move the segments up to whatever KS I need to at that point.

Probably some will think I’m a brute for doing this, but it has worked for me for two years so far, and I find it much faster than creating expression maps.

[mducharme]

@Sebastian_Alvarez

Probably some will think I’m a brute for doing this, but it has worked for me for two years so far, and I find it much faster than creating expression maps.

It depends in part on your library. I use a lot of the VSL libraries where they have multi-level keyswitches, like one range of keyswitches makes a selection from the topmost branch of the articulations tree, then another range drills down, then another range drills down further, and another makes the final selection (like a menu inside a menu inside a menu, with keyswitch ranges making menu options at each level). This complicated navigation is necessary because some of their products have up to 300 articulations in total and so you can’t just map all those to keyswitches individually. So a lot of the time you need up to four keyswitches simultaneously, and the meaning is not always the same because making a different menu selection at a higher level will result in the lower level changing. So an F#0 may be staccato if you’re in the shorts menu in the interface but it might be a trill if you’re in the decorations menu. It’s almost impossible to decode this without expression maps controlling it.

Even if you are using attributes for everything, the drop down list in the info bar of attributes gets pretty impossible to use with 300 entries in it.

The new system makes these huge libraries possible to work with with comprehensive maps.

[Sebastian_Alvarez]

@mducharme

This complicated navigation is necessary because some of their products have up to 300 articulations in total and so you can’t just map all those to keyswitches individually. So a lot of the time you need up to four keyswitches simultaneously, and the meaning is not always the same because making a different menu selection at a higher level will result in the lower level changing. So an F#0 may be staccato if you’re in the shorts menu in the interface but it might be a trill if you’re in the decorations menu. It’s almost impossible to decode this without expression maps controlling it.

Wow! I do have some VSL libraries, but not the super expensive ones, just the Epic Orchestra, Synchron something orchestra, and the Basso Profondo and the other kids choirs. The Synchron orchestra has at times 3 levels deep, and I do like that about their libraries, but their sound never impressed me much.

Honestly I would go insane if I had to deal with 300 articulations. In my case I use SINE, Eastwest, and now LUX Strings, for which it’s faster to just draw that long note and cut it in pieces to change sections as I need.

[mducharme]

@Sebastian_Alvarez

Honestly I would go insane if I had to deal with 300 articulations. In my case I use SINE, Eastwest, and now LUX Strings, for which it’s faster to just draw that long note and cut it in pieces to change sections as I need.

It is quite comprehensive, but yo be fair, many of the 300 articulations are different attack and release variants of other articulations. Soft release, very soft release, or normal release. Then for attack, there is soft attack, normal attack, fast attack, and sfz attack. And these could be combined into whatever way you want like you could use an sfz attack with a very soft release. So there are a lot of possible combinations/permutations here.

The one thing I would say though is even with simpler libraries like the ones you are using, the attack compensation feature should be a big benefit, and might sway you to using maps where you would have used keyswitches before. They are easier to set up than before, so long as you’re using standard techniques that appear in the default list.