"external hardware" Latancy behavior strange

[createartrecords]

I’m trying to record an external hardware synthesizer via a separate MIDI interface and the audio interface used in Cubase, along with the MIDI data, in real time. I want to monitor myself externally in real time via an analog mixer before Cubase. This is because I’m very sensitive to even small latencies and want to be able to play along properly even in resource-intensive projects (high buffer size). The problem lies fundamentally with the placement of the WAV file in the Cubase project. Depending on the settings, it’s sometimes placed too early and sometimes too late. – To ensure the audio played in real time ends up in the correct position directly from the audio interface, I’ve found no other solution than to activate the “Accept Recording Latency” mode. (Although, even after speaking with Steinberg support, it’s still not entirely clear to me whether the recording offset that can be set is related to the “Accept Recording Latency” mode.) This seems to work somehow. But it’s obviously very cumbersome. I was able to solve the problem in Ableton Live. They recently added a “keepLatency” switch. – To ensure the audio file correctly positions the WAV file when playing back the recorded MIDI notes, I now have to feed the audio channel where I want to record the synthesizer’s audio signal from the “external instrument.” Then the WAV file ends up in the correct position, where the MIDI note is located. It seems logical, but in the end, it doesn’t quite work for me. I’ve found a workaround where, when playing in real time, I record the audio signal directly from the audio interface and not from the “external instrument.” Otherwise, the WAV file is set too late. I measured and set the “delay setting” of the external instrument to 15ms using audio loopback. But as I understand it, this only applies when playing MIDI data from Cubase, not for real-time playing. (That’s where my first confusion lies.) To summarize: I want to control a hardware synthesizer from a MIDI keyboard rooted via Cubase and record the audio (plus MIDI) in Cubase. I want to monitor the audio in real time directly through an analog mixer. Then I want to record this as both MIDI and audio in Cubase. Ideally, I’d like to play back the processed MIDI from Cubase afterward and record the audio again in Cubase. In my opinion… Is this the only truly practical way to play external synthesizers in real time with Cubase? I hope you can understand my complicated explanation; you probably know it’s not that simple. I would be very happy to receive a reply. Edit: To understand the recordings, please refer to the following settings in SS 1 and 2. Edit 2: Of course, this is based on your audio interface specifications. (Visual measuring in the Wave Editor) Prj. and Settings: Microsoft OneDrive Best regards, Ron

[XLColdJ]

@createartrecords

I’m trying to record an external hardware synthesizer via a separate MIDI interface and the audio interface used in Cubase, along with the MIDI data, in real time.

OK, that’s basic functionality.

@createartrecords

I want to monitor myself externally in real time via an analog mixer before Cubase. This is because I’m very sensitive to even small latencies and want to be able to play along properly even in resource-intensive projects (high buffer size).

OK

@createartrecords

The problem lies fundamentally with the placement of the WAV file in the Cubase project. Depending on the settings, it’s sometimes placed too early and sometimes too late.

Depending on which settings?

@createartrecords

To ensure the audio played in real time ends up in the correct position directly from the audio interface, I’ve found no other solution than to activate the “Accept Recording Latency” mode. (Although, even after speaking with Steinberg support, it’s still not entirely clear to me whether the recording offset that can be set is related to the “Accept Recording Latency” mode.) This seems to work somehow. But it’s obviously very cumbersome.

Not sure I understand. How is it cumbersome? You just check a box, right? It works, but you still have a problem?

@createartrecords

I was able to solve the problem in Ableton Live. They recently added a “keepLatency” switch.

That doesn’t really help with figuring out how to do it in Cubase.

@createartrecords

To ensure the audio file correctly positions the WAV file when playing back the recorded MIDI notes, I now have to feed the audio channel where I want to record the synthesizer’s audio signal from the “external instrument.” Then the WAV file ends up in the correct position, where the MIDI note is located. It seems logical, but in the end, it doesn’t quite work for me. I’ve found a workaround where, when playing in real time, I record the audio signal directly from the audio interface and not from the “external instrument.” Otherwise, the WAV file is set too late.

If that’s what it takes to get the result, why not just do it?

@createartrecords

To summarize: I want to control a hardware synthesizer from a MIDI keyboard rooted via Cubase and record the audio (plus MIDI) in Cubase. I want to monitor the audio in real time directly through an analog mixer. Then I want to record this as both MIDI and audio in Cubase. Ideally, I’d like to play back the processed MIDI from Cubase afterward and record the audio again in Cubase. In my opinion… Is this the only truly practical way to play external synthesizers in real time with Cubase?

It’s definitely a valid approach, but it’s not the only way. There’s no need to record the audio while recording the MIDI, if you are going to edit the MIDI and re-record the audio. The most “practical” way to play (and record) external synths in real time with Cubase is to use a setup with low latency…

@createartrecords

I hope you can understand my complicated explanation

well…

@createartrecords

To understand the recordings, please refer to the following settings in SS 1 and 2.

It seems like the root-cause of your issues is that your latency is more than 10x higher than what’s ideal. If you want to get better performance and results with recording audio, you need to get the latency down quite a bit, and experiment with the audio interface settings before making adjustments using “Record Shift.” If it’s possible–try out a different (better-performing) audio interface.

• What audio interface are you using, and what’s your buffer size?

• Also, is there any particular reason why you’re not using ASIO Guard? Have you tried it?

[createartrecords]

Hi, lot of thanks for your replie!

My Machine has changed. I use noe W11. Now i tried “Asio-Guard” again and gave them a Chance again. I recogniced that AG works now how it intendet. I didnt has a free mind until now to test my explained Confusion about recording External Instruments Audio.

I will report and answer your questions when i get more experiences about that in the new Sytem with Asio Guard.

Answer your question:

My RealTime playing is in Record Mode 32S/B. . If the Project get larger i have to get up what it needs. Then i use a second paralell I/O (both RME) to play the Software outside as Standalone or e.g. Vienna Ensemble as paralell Host. Cubase to have still 32 S/B to Play in Realtime with the paralell indipendent Interface, connected viad Adat.

Cuase i tweaked my System i dont have crackles..

I will report..

Lot of thanks