The clefs indicated with arrows seem redundant to me, especially after such short rests.
In fact a clef change directly before any multi-measure clef looks strange to me. I would put the clef change directly before the next cue or non-resting measure, if needed.
I am not sure that Dorico is adhering standard practice and wonder if there is a way of eliminating these clefs in Dorico. haven’t found anything yet in Gould about this.
This has bitten me several times too.
I believe I worked around that by adding a treble clef change to the main part (I believe a cello or trombone here) from after the 14-bar multirest to bar 144 included. Perhaps this makes the first clef too big as it would be standard size but it may be possible to cue-size it.
I am glad this has only happened to you several times, Michele.
What you suggested sort of works but now the initial bass clef (its a bassoon part) on the following line is missing. In general, Dorico seems to adhere to the system in which each line begins with a bass clef and then there is an additional treble clef following where needed by the cues.
But now one line doesn’t follow the rest. And this is not the only such place.
There is clearly something I don’t understand about how the clefs for the cues and main part are supposed to work together.
At this point, every such place requires experimentation to try to figure out where to place the new clefs so they apply only to the trouble spots and not the rest of the piece, which I find no easy task. And then if successful, I have some lines with double clefs and some with only an initial treble clef.
Here’s the next case. The initial clef is a treble clef rather than a double clef. So I guess I need a double clef here? Or maybe not. And I need to remove the bass clef before the one measure rest. No idea how to do it, or what I am doing, but will fiddle around with it for a while.
Can’t upload the example for some reason, it goes around and around a 0%. Will try in a next post.
The example:
I finally worked out that I need to physically pull the bass clef that is before the one measure rest in the example over to where the bass clef is in the fourth measure. Then it goes away. Maybe this system will work with the earlier case and leave a double clef in measure 169. This is a bit like simplifying algebraic expressions to remove brackets and such.
Hi @John_Ruggero, if I am not overseeing some disadvantage Edit: ouch…, in the score the clef changes are visible, in case those bares are not hidden. So a duplicate player with those clef changes is necessary for the part , you can easily add those clef changes manually (so that the automatically returning of the original f clef in the multi-bar rest is avoided).
(Edit 2: you can then hide the added clefs in the score):
Edit: I just noticed that this was already being suggested by @MicheleGalvagno here above.
Next installment. I think that Dorico really doesn’t adhere to the two clef system at all. So one must determine whether any particular clef is part of a cue or part of the main part and do a conversion as necessary. In time this will probably become easier.
I am still trying to wrap my head around all this and will consider your kind suggestion after I have exhausted my own resources.
This is really similar to the old PITA independent key sig workaround required before Dorico allowed “late” instrument changes. Basically Dorico won’t redraw clefs and key sigs if the new material, whether an new instrument or a new cue, matches the existing staff, so just make those elements match and then you’re in the clear.
Thanks, @FredGUnn I still not conversant enough with the cuing capabilities to quite understand that, but I am discovering that I am confusing the ending clef that Dorico seems to add automatically at the end of cues with a real clef that starts the played music. So I need to make sure that the first bit of played music has a “real” clef in front of it. Then I can select the cued music before it and in put the appropriate clef for the whole area, which gets rid of the extra clefs and which does change the initial clef on each line. I had thought that Dorico maintained a double clef system, but it doesn’t. The double clefs were just an artifact.
I finally had a chance to look over your example. In this case, all I did was drag the clef from before the multi-measure rest to the beginning of the entrance in measure 11 and all is well. The clef is now after the multi-measure rest and directly before the entrance.
I have yet to completely understand the interaction of the clefs assigned by the cuing mechanism, those actually in the part, plus the “Transposed clef” control in the Properties panel, but I am getting the results I need, at least, often by trial and error.
