F/R: Basic Audio CD: Individual Track Level

BON JOUR!!! :smiley:

I may be the only guy left who burns CDs, but I burn a LOT of test CDs. And by test CDs I mean, where I’m comparing rough mixes with reference tracks.

The problem, of course, is that the RMS level of the reference tracks will vary for many reasons (mastering, genre, etc.) So in order to make a decent CD I have to manually adjust the levels of each track so they kinda/sorta match.

What I would like is this: For each Track on a Basic CD, add a little ‘Trim’ slider next to the play button. When the user clicks it, you can adjust the overall level of each track, perhaps 0 to -20db. AND make that save-able within the Basic CD format.

That way I can burn a test CD without having to edit each file… just Add Tracks, adjust the levels, and BURN.

This would save me a LOT of time.



Why not using the Audio Montage?

Habit. Speed. I always thought it was a lot faster to set up Basic CDs

Habit, maybe. But speed, no!

Can you elaborate how using a montage would be -faster-?

I have all these basic cds. All I need to do is reduce the levels of certain tracks.

Maybe I’m missing something… but to do what I want to do in a montage means
a) Converting from the basic CD,
b) editing each clip (track) individually

…it seems like a much slower process.

Is there a shortcut?

Any word on this?

If there is a faster method using Montages, can you give me a ‘how-to’ or a link to a procedure?

If not, please consider this for WL9.

The problem I have with using Montages is that, although I can quickly build a Montage and set the level for each clip, I -still- have to render it into a Basic CD and -then- burn the CD. So it takes at least 2x as long as just starting with a Basic CD.

All -I- need is a way to simply set the level for each track before burning. Creating a montage seems to be total overkill.


The problem I have with using Montages is that, although I can quickly build a Montage and set the level for each clip, I -still- have to render it into a Basic CD and -then- burn the CD.

Why? Why don’t you burn the Audio Montage directly?


Basically, it comes down to this: and I’m sorry to be so blunt. I hope this is taken as constructive criticism. I have been a stalward supporter of WL since version 3.

I’ve never gotten over the UX shift in WL7. I tend to stick with Basic CD because, frankly, it’s easy. The moment I go into Audio Montage I’m in another world. It has all these context-sensitive features—menus that are hidden. If I’m not hovered on the right area I don’t see the menus. And I forget where the hell they -are-. And they’re -never- where I think they should be.

So I avoid the Montage system as much as I can UNLESS I’m working on a large project where I need to focus on it. That only happens every 3-4 months.

I wanted the additional feature so I wouldn’t have to mess with the various ‘windows’ every time I want to burn a CD. I just want the top menu to have -words-. No icons… no hidden functions… no re-learning where the ‘clip’ menu is every time I change from audio montage to just editing single WAV files.

I only spend a small amount of time in WL every day. It’s important to me, but it’s not the main part of my day. I have to switch between Cubase and WL and Adobe Creative Suite… as well as the usual, word processor, web, e-mail.

I need a -fast- way to get this task done without having to memorise something that does not at all work like the rest of my softwares.

Frankly, I resent how UN-standard WL has become since v7. I use Basic CD because it’s the closest thing left to a ‘normal’ Windows program. I hit and it INSERTS a new track. I hit and it DELETES a track. As I expect. I open Audio Montage and there are very few of the familiar landmarks I expect in Windows… like Insert and Delete.

Now… if I spent most of my day in WL, I would memorise it’s paradigm and not complain. But I don’t. And what is worrying is that, now that Cubase is geting more and more eccentric like WL. So now I’ve got -more- things to think about.

In short, I asked for the above small feature request so I don’t have to mess with the parts of WL that are not Windows-standard. I used to feel guilty about ‘not mastering’ the WL7 paradigm, but screw that. Programs should be intuitive. The whole idea of Windows (or Mac or Ubuntu for that matter) is to have a standard way of doing things so it’s not like learning a new language every time one switches between programs.

You hinted that WL9 will bring more ‘integration’ with Cubase. I wonder if that will include the UI. I wonder if it will be a good thing from my POV.

I hope you’ll consider my above request. And also think about my criticism. I depend on WL, but I stopped -enjoying- the experience with WL7 because the whole windowing/hidden feature deal is just -brutal- for part-timers like me.



I take good note.

Hi, why not work with Basic Audio CD and then make an Audio Montage from it.
Set level etc and make a CD or even render to Basic Audio CD if you need too go back again.
But personally I work in Audio Montage why becouse there is many things you can’t do in BACD.
Regards S-EH

@PG… thanks. Really. If I could have one wish for the UI it would be that, when the Audio Montage were open, there was a -fixed- menu at the top with instant access to the Current Clip, CD and Marker context-sensitive menus. I -never- seem to be able to remember where to focus the mouse and then right click.

@S-EH… thanks, also. I think I’ve already more than ranted enough. I’ll just say that it’s too slow and that I worked -much- faster in the WL4-6… with the old-style fixed menus.




I avoid Audio Montage for everything. As soon as I stumble in there - I start to sweat. In all my years of production - I have never known an interface that makes me so lost…

Here is hoping for something much better in WL9…


Back to my original request… I make LOTS of Reference CDs. And again, I may be like the last guy in the Western World who does this.

I have no one ‘reference’. One day I might be using a Led Zeppelin track and the next Frou Frou. The apparent loudness of every track can very like 20db from one original CD track to another.

The ideal would be some magical ‘MetaNormalizer’ on the Basic CD so that one didn’t even -need- to set different levels for each track.

It would pre-analyze all the tracks to be burned and do its best to equalize their -loudness-… no user-intervention required. Again, just for apples to apples comparison… NOT necessarily for ‘audiophile’ use (although better quality is ideal, of course.)

Since that seems like wishful thinking, I’d settle for a level slider on each track. :smiley:

In fact what you’re saying is, you make LOTS of reference CDs, and because you don’t want to use the montage functionality, you want the Basic CD to get this same functionality. If I were you, especially with LOTS of ref CDs, I’d make an effort to learn the montage.

If you really wanna be helpful, take the time to lay out a recipe that demonstrates just how ‘fast’ the process is with an Audio Montage. If it’s really -that- simple, I’ll just print it out and keep it somewhere at hand. Accept my thanks in advance.

But that’s just what I would do if I were you.


Without the sarcasm I might even have considered it. Fortunately we’re not each other then.

WaveLab has a decent manual.


Paul has been quite restrained in his comment as there are ruder versions!

What you want to do is exactly what the montage is for. I used WL before the montage was introduced and quite frankly if WL3 did not have this I would have looked elsewhere. The montage is so quick, easy and flexible and also non destructive and you can undertake work that would be so difficult or even impossible with just a plain wave editor.

You need to take the time to read the manual and try some set ups. Once you have a montage you can work with you can save it as a template and just use that when you want to start a new project.

I admit that the workspace concept is a bit more tricky but I’ve not spent the time on this that I should have to date, but I can get by.

No one is going to do the hard work for you - you just have to read the manual and practice. If you don’t you’ve wasted your money!


Gentlemen (and I use that term loosely),

Yes, Philippe is always pretty darned courteous. I certainly try to be as well. I asked for a F/R that would help -me-. I only brought up the UX issue (which was railed about by -many- when WL7 was released) because Philippe asked ‘why?’ and as a former UX developer I gave my answer in a hopefully constructive manner.

All I want is a -much- faster and INTUITIVE way to burn reference CDs. One that I can go to even if I haven’t opened WL in 3 months… as sometimes happens. I think my F/R would be faster than even a brain surgeon with Audio Montage, but maybe I’m wrong.

Regardless, the wider issue applies to -many- tasks in WL and I can only repeat: if I used WL every day for a good amount of time (as the devotees do) I’m sure I would internalise this. But I don’t. So I need WL to give me a way to do the tasks I need WITHOUT CRACKING THE MANUAL. And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who feels this way.

The defensiveness of ‘RTFM!’ replies is just silly in 2015. That argument will no longer fly in UX design, regardless of how powerful a software may be. Ease of use matters. The world is littered with truly -great- softwares with un-intuitive UIs. No tax preparation program would sell if someone couldn’t figure out how to use it… even though they only open it once every 12 months. And that is what WL is for me… a -very- necessary program that needs to be -that- dead simple unless I -choose- to dive into the details. If you guys think WL is all that and a bag of chips, GREAT! So do I… except for the non-intuitive nature of certain tasks. I’ve basically had to re-learn the UI about 12 times since I bought V7. If that makes me a numb skull? Well, there are a LOT of us out there.

I’ve done my due diligence and I think my original criticisms stand. There’s nothing more to say.

Good one! I am in the “other” class as well.

Use WL everyday for voiceover and restoration work. I absolutely loathed using WL7 and have no better love for 8 either but I did somehow stumble through building two “workspaces” that allow me to do my work.

But as far as doing anything else - espeically an Audio Montage - which is instantly way more confusing than I ever manage to process - there is no way I would spend hours trying to learn it

Time is money and if need multi track work - I use Studio One and which takes me about 8 seconds to get working there. No manual required.

For the price of WL and the time it’s been around - this thing should really drive itself by now for major stuff and I should never need to crack a manual for major stuff.