Feature reqest - Automation

Nuendo
21

That’s why we have the suspend function in the automation panel.
If there is one thing that bothers me in the automation system within Nuendo, it’s the fact that you can automate “Mute”. I think it’s utterly stupid. So I always have Mute Suspended all the way.

I’m preparing/constructing/editing very complicated project with lots of foley and effects.

That is not different to what most of us do in post.
Current project: 3x 8 DIA tracks, 8 PFX, 32 Foley Steps, 32 Foley Props, 2x 12 SFX, 4 x 16 BG, 24 MX.
3 time 8 reverbs, Dipped & undipped STEMS for 5. 1 and Stereo, etc …
Nothing big, nothing exceptional. Standard procedure.

What I seem to understand from what you describe, is that you do all kinds of stuff at the same time. I think this is where we differ. In a “normal” Post workflow, most of the specific tasks are “split”. First comes Dialog edit, then comes PFX, etc … Once you get to the mixing stage, first thing is to EQ the dialog. When EQ-ing the dialog is done, you might set the reverbs for the DIA, etc … Each is a “pass”. Everything is committed directly by punching in the automation you have just previewed.

Now, I am not going to teach you how to work. All I am saying is that this is the way 99% of the Post users work. Why? Because on bigger projects, you very often work with different people. So the person that comes after you, the premixer, the dubbing mixer or whoever needs to find a clean and structured project. All of the departments (DIA Edit/ SFX cutters/ Foley/BG cutters/etc …) do their thing, and submit that to the pre or final mixer. So it is only at the very end that you have a mixture of things, all happening at the same time. But even then, each pass for each scene is committed in “parts”. EQ a BG … when it is OK, it is committed. Adjust the reverb tail on the Foley Track: Committed. I don’t know of any engineer who has half a dozen things in the air before he commits his automation pass. I don’t even see how this is possible. One thing asks for a “To End” commitment, EQ is mostly in loop, Volume might be trim or whatever. I simply don’t see how to do it in any another way.

Anyway, each his/her own way of doing things. Don’t take it personal.
But I stand firmly behind the opinion that being able to write automation to a track that is not in Write mode is against all logic.

Fredo

1 Like
22

Yes, this is qite similar to the way I work too. (even tho its usually just for myself) But I use a lot of automation of eq, filters, sends, panning too (the channel eq in Nuendo is amazing). And even for foley or SFX too (which is not that common) I like to be (sometimes have to) quite detailed about the tonality of all of them, so I’m quite often dynamic with all of the automation I described before. I even “pre ride” the faders so the whole sound scene clicks and the moment I get to Mix hall I mainly touch VCAs and do more broad strokes, or fix some details. Everything affects everything, so It’s not stupid to set eq based on the reverb send and vice versa. So I’m dealing with lot of manual static punch ins of different types of automation, altering of it, so there would be dynamic glides to parameters, some real time fader rides and also copying bits and pieces of automation to other tracks, other parts, which I want to affect similarly.
How do you deal with thease tasks guys? You don’t need them as often as I do?
As I said beafore, this area seems to me the most underdeveloped compared to PT (maybe the only one actually)

But you can do it with cursor, pencil one at the time and that is normal, standard.

23

If I’m mixing a show by myself (mostly docs, sports etc.) then I have all narration, dialog and effects tracks with auto write enabled. I edit, clean and then EQ and premix as I go, starting with the dialog (production sound). I don’t need to punch levels from the preview buffer because I ride the faders, I don’t have them flat for a section. So what I punch to loop is EQ and filters, and occasionally something like a specific effect (futz) like radio. I collect several parameters by touching them but not across that many plugins or effects.

I have a macro set that selects cycle loop, preview is engaged, fill to loop is engaged, playback is started. Then I tweak and just press a key to punch out. As long as I’ve had coffee I won’t grab the wrong track’s effects.

It’s very quick.

24

Sure we need them as often as you.
We work in “passes”.
First thing I do is EQ the Dialog edit.
Signal chain: DX tracks => premix group DX => Group DX => Group STEM
Visibility in the mixer is: only the DX tracks & DX premix group. No other fader or track is visible, so no chance of messing up something else.

I do this with “To Loop” locked. Which means I only have to set locators and tweak the EQ.
No preview of punch needed.
Second pass is adding reverbs. I have 8 DX reverbs ready in my template.
(At that time the “depth” is already taken’ care of by the dialog editor who has balanced the boom & Lav’s) I add a tiny amount of DX to the center and L/R to help the DIA blend in with the room tones and to make the DIA come “alive”. I do this on the Premix DX group, so I only need one send for all DX tracks. Same procedure: “To loop” locked.
If there is more to tweak, then I do this on the individual DX tracks.

Then I move to PFX, BG’s, Foley props, Foley Steps, etc … building up the complete project. All using the same procedure.
Only when the music is cut in, I balance all different groups with fader rides. I do this on their respective Groups. (not the premix Groups) Reason for that is that the DX, PFX & Foley groups have all their respective reverbs routed to them.

And so on; until the very end, where I do a couple of passes to tweak/fix/adjust details.
So basicall, I do one thing at the time.
This makes that I do numerous passes of the complete project, which makes that you know where every bold and nail is. I constantly make notes to, what I think, needs a revisit later on. This also brings structure to the project and my workflow. At the end of the day, I have finished “a” task from start to end of the project. So, next day another task is waiting. Either for me, or for a collegue. No explenation needed, no “getting my head back in the project”. I also know exactly how many days I still need to complete the project, or that specific episode. Talking about episodes. These come in “parts”. One day I will receive the DIA edit of episode 8, the next day the Music for Episode 3, the next day I receive Foley for episode 5, the day after that I have a premix waiting for episode 2, etc … Which means I know the “status” of each episode, and urgently needs done to meet the deadline.
Structure and dicipline. Without that one would never survive in Post.

There might be variations in above procedure, due to the nature of the project and/or the personal preferences of the engineer, but everyone I know is working according the same basic procedure. I.e. one task at the time.

HTH
Fredo

25

So you never find yourself in the need of a more global automation functions? No Copy of multiple parameters, no glide to all enabled, or write to all enabed, write to selection? Imagine (when editing/mixing foley) that you find the perfect 3d paning, reverb send and filter movements for some person walking in room, for their steps. Wounldn’t it be nice to copy all that for the cloth layer as well? Like a starting point for later tweeking, or you could use it in similar situation later on.

That also meens if you want to change anything, the change happens immediately, even if it is not actually better. Are you using the undo branches to negate that? I have to see their capabilities yet, but I fear that they will take aditional realestate on my screen.

To be hones from all that I listed, the Gliding function (being abe to glide automation over loop to the previewed parameters) is what I really misss in Nuendo. The other sudgestions are more on the note, that it cold be more direct from how it is now.

26

If I want to do that, I QuickLink my premix Groups so that any reverb send of DX, PFX, Foley Steps & Foley Props are linked. But that is only for quick & dirty projects. Using the same reverb & amount of reverb on all “sections” don’t work for me. I tweak my reverbs per group. So on PFX I do a reverb-pass, on Foley a reverb pass, etc … For footsteps that are “walking away” in the distance, I use a pre-send reverb on the individual Foley track.

Oh yes. Depends on what I am doing. But since I do one “task” at the time, I rarely need them all at once.

You fail to see the the big picture.
When doing Dialog edit, I use EQ.
I use EQ because it is needs a fix.
So there is no question of not liking it; it’s a question of something that needs to be done.
Don’t like it? Then I tweak some more, but I never have to come back to the original.
And if … then I just load the reset preset.

Of course, when I revisit the DIA for tweaking, I use the regular preview/punch.
So I use what I need/want to use at each stage.

To me it seems a lot of work.
I do my surround passes in two times. Front to back, left to right.
And if it’s complicated, I just design the automation by hand.
I hardly ever use my Joystick, it is just to inaccurate.

I also have to note that we are working on Nuage, which makes that all functions are at the top of our fingertips. All workspaces and channelviews can be recalled instantly. Flip faders are used for sends, EQ, dynamics and panning are right in front of us on the Nuage Master Display. With mouse & keyboard it indeed is a lot more complicated.

Fredo

1 Like
27

I thought so, that makes sense.

Like it is now it’s a lot of work. If I want to glide multiple parameters on multiple tracks I have to first open them and then edit and copy/paste everything one by one. I’m doing this quite often for sound design puroposes - Moving filters, and asceding reverb feed for example (And similar things for similar or diferent reasons). In PT I could, under preview, set the starting points of all the automation over all tracks, punch it for the beggining snippet and than under second preview find the ending values, define the duration by selection and than comand Automation Glide to all enabled would simply glide between all selected values on all afected automation lanes.
End even with a good controller that wouldn’ t be as fast in Nuendo.

28

Still I can’t be the only Nuendo user wishing for more advanced features to handle/edit automation? :sweat_smile:

1 Like