Feature request: save and copy files like in Reaper (was: Default way of opening a template?)

[someone_from_germany]

When you open a template in Cubase it asks you to select a folder first - even before saving.

I often open the same template to jam a bit without the intention to save anything. For that reason I’ve created a temporary folder called “temp”. There is a lot a junk from previous sessions in there. When I sometimes create something worth saving, I save the project. But it uses the “temp” folder for audio files etc. Cubase doesn’t ask me to change the folder when saving. So after saving I use the backup function to store the project in a new folder. That also makes sure that the old junk from the “temp” folder gets ignored. Then I have to delete the first saved project file (.cpr) that still uses the “temp” folder.

There must be an easier way to do this! Can somebody help? Why do I need to save first before using the backup function. It wasn’t like this in Cubase 14 when I remember correctly.

And to the developers at Steinberg: please store everything in a temporary folder until I want to save the project. Don’t ask me for a folder before. Thanks…

[Dave_B]

Simplest way…delete the temp project folder before using it again. When you create the project Cubase has no crystal ball whether you will save any changes to the default project or not.

AFAIK, Cubase has ALWAYS stored recorded files in the media folder for the project by default. I see no good reason to change this and require managing “temporary” folders. Doing so, would create similar complaints about lingering temporary folders on program crashes/hangs, etc.

I think you may be misremembering.

[Johnny_Moneto]

What you described is exactly the way as far as I am concerned.

Cubase distguinshes between a project and a project folder. The project can exist only in memory without getting saved but you always have to tell Cubase where to store any recordings and destructive edits.

[someone_from_germany]

@Johnny_Moneto

Cubase distguinshes between a project and a project folder. The project can exist only in memory without getting saved but you always have to tell Cubase where to store any recordings and destructive edits.

I can’t think of a possible scenario where I would want to have a project folder, but no project file. Or a project file in a different directory than the project folder.

To me it looks like the Steinberg programmers were too lazy to copy the files from a temporary folder to a project folder when the project is saved.

[someone_from_germany]

@Dave_B

Simplest way…delete the temp project folder before using it again. When you create the project Cubase has no crystal ball whether you will save any changes to the default project or not.

This would mean if I only want to jam a bit on an instrument without the intention to produce anything useful, my workflow would be:

1. open macOS Finder
2. find the folder with Cubase folders
3. delete old temp folder
4. open Cubase
5. start a template
6. choose new temp folder

Doesn’t that look overly complicated and unintuitive? Why doesn’t Cubase delete the unused temp folder when exiting the app? Why do I have to open finder if I only want to jam?

[mlib]

You can create a project folder, name it “Jam”, “temp” or whatever you feel is intuitive and use this for your jamming sessions where you don’t anticipate saving the project. No need for any cleanup procedures.

[Dave_B]

@someone_from_germany

Why do I have to open finder if I only want to jam?

You don’t! As you mentioned earlier, you can also delete unused audio from the pool. My comment regarding deleting, assures that there is no circumstance where existing changes to a “temp” project ever interfere with a new project by the same name.

You can also just live with the fact that these undeleted and unused files will stick around until you decide to delete them. Apparently, you were happily using this until you discovered the fact that these files are still there, so really, the only impact is disk space.

Obviously, it’s up to Steinberg/Yamaha to determine the priority of such a request in the context of all the other requests for features and bug fixes. If asked by Steinberg if I feel this is a priority, my response would be “No!”. There are existing commands/procedures to handle this situation.

[Paul_H]

@someone_from_germany

When you open a template in Cubase it asks you to select a folder first - even before saving.

I often open the same template to jam a bit without the intention to save anything. For that reason I’ve created a temporary folder called “temp”. There is a lot a junk from previous sessions in there. When I sometimes create something worth saving, I save the project. But it uses the “temp” folder for audio files etc. Cubase doesn’t ask me to change the folder when saving.

There’s some simple settings that fix these things (at least for me).

1. In “Hub” open “Hub Settings”, check “Use Default Location” and set a default location (folder or directory) - mine is called “temp stuff”. When you open a template it automatically opens a new folder under that directory called “…temp stuff\Untitled-XXX” where XXX are sequential numbers. With these settings Cubase won’t ask you to set up folders when you first open, but it does save your files in a unique folder for that session.

2. When you want to save something, use “File / Save As” - which opens a menu to allow you to setup a new directory, file name, etc for the files you want to keep. It only saves the project file there, not audio files.

3. Don’t delete the Default Location directories (what I call “temp stuff”). On re-opening a main project file the audio files, etc are easily findable by opening Cubase menu item “Media / Open Pool Window”. The files will all be together in one of the “Untitled-XXX” directories. If you want them all together for neatness or whatever you can move them, but Cubase knows where they are and can tell you where to find them.

[SoundDome]

I kinda understand the idea, but I’m wondering how this would work in practice?

If Cubase doesn’t ask for a project folder when opening a template, where should all the recorded audio, waveform data, cache files, autosaves, and other project-related files be stored in the meantime?

What happens if you’re just jamming for five minutes versus recording for three hours?

And what happens if the computer crashes before the project has ever been saved?

How would Cubase know whether that data is important and should be recovered, or whether it can simply be discarded?

Since Cubase can’t know the user’s intention in advance, someone has to decide what should happen with that data. Asking for a project location at the beginning may not be the most convenient workflow, but it does give Cubase a clear and reliable place to store everything from the start.

To me, it has happened more than once that I reopened a ten-year-old “temporary idea” and thought, “Parts of this are actually pretty good.”

For that reason, I’d much rather keep those temporary ideas than rely on an automatic deletion system and lose the chance to revisit them years later.

[someone_from_germany]

@SoundDome

I kinda understand the idea, but I’m wondering how this would work in practice?

If Cubase doesn’t ask for a project folder when opening a template, where should all the recorded audio, waveform data, cache files, autosaves, and other project-related files be stored in the meantime?

macOS has a temp directory for this that is used by apps.

@SoundDome

What happens if you’re just jamming for five minutes versus recording for three hours?

There is no difference.

@SoundDome

And what happens if the computer crashes before the project has ever been saved?

The autosaves will still be in the temp folder for some time.

@SoundDome

How would Cubase know whether that data is important and should be recovered, or whether it can simply be discarded?

Everything that is not saved as a project and stays in the temp folder will get deleted after some time.

@SoundDome

Since Cubase can’t know the user’s intention in advance, …

Even the user doesn’t know in advance whether he will save the stuff later on.

@SoundDome

To me, it has happened more than once that I reopened a ten-year-old “temporary idea” and thought, “Parts of this are actually pretty good.”

If you were able to open the project, you must have saved it before.

[someone_from_germany]

@Paul_H

1. In “Hub” open “Hub Settings”, check “Use Default Location” and set a default location (folder or directory) - mine is called “temp stuff”. When you open a template it automatically opens a new folder under that directory called “…temp stuff\Untitled-XXX” where XXX are sequential numbers. With these settings Cubase won’t ask you to set up folders when you first open, but it does save your files in a unique folder for that session.

Yes, I did this before. But you’ll end up with hundreds of Untitled-XXX folders that you are afraid to delete because there may be an important project that uses one of these. Nightmare!

And if you accept that you can never delete them, data from unused jam sessions will accumulate there and use up disk space.

@Paul_H

2. When you want to save something, use “File / Save As” - which opens a menu to allow you to setup a new directory, file name, etc for the files you want to keep. It only saves the project file there, not audio files.

Why can’t Cubase simply copy the audio files to the new directory of the project file?

@Paul_H

3. Don’t delete the Default Location directories (what I call “temp stuff”). On re-opening a main project file the audio files, etc are easily findable by opening Cubase menu item “Media / Open Pool Window”. The files will all be together in one of the “Untitled-XXX” directories. If you want them all together for neatness or whatever you can move them, but Cubase knows where they are and can tell you where to find them.

You don’t have to copy audio files one by one. You can use the backup project function for that.

[mlib]

@someone_from_germany

Why can’t Cubase simply copy the audio files to the new directory of the project file?

Use Backup Project instead. This will create a copy of all relevant project files to a new location.

[SoundDome]

@someone_from_germany

Everything that is not saved as a project and stays in the temp folder will get deleted after some time.

Okay, fair enought. A temporary folder would certainly be a possible solution.

@someone_from_germany

Even the user doesn’t know in advance whether he will save the stuff later on.

Exactly - that´s what I am talking about.

In fact, my personal workflow often depends on projects that originally started as “temporary” or “jam a bit”.
Those are the kinds of projects that, under such a system, could eventually be deleteed automatically, meaning i would never have access to them again.

Sometimes I revisit ideas months or even years later, only to discover that a melody, cord progression, certian instrument or even the entire project is exactly what i need for something I´m currently working on.

I also use older ideas or temporary projects as inspiration and starting points for new projects.

So, for me, it would be incredibly frustrating if Cubase automatically deleted anything after a certain amount of time.

In fact it would be a nightmare.

@someone_from_germany

If you were able to open the project, you must have saved it before.

That´s exactly the point.

@someone_from_germany

When you open a template in Cubase it asks you to select a folder first - even before saving.

After that, I don´t have to think about it anymore - i just start working.

Maybe it´s just me, but once I´m in the creative flow, I forget to save things far too often. Thank goodness for autosaves and similar recovery features that have saved me more than once.

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If every new project started in a temporary location instead, I would constantly have to remember that everything is still sitting in temporary storage and that I need to move the entire project to a permanent location before it´s eventually deletetd.

Personally, I´d much rather create a project folder right from the beginning than having to go through extra steps and also rely on temporary storage. A few extra megabytes or even a few additional project folders don´t bother me at all, considering the storage capacity of modern SSDs and HDDs.

More importantly than storage capacity, I know that my ideas—no matter when I created them—will always be there for me. I can revisit them, reuse parts of them, or simply use them as inspiration whenever I need, until I decide to delete them myself.

I still have projects from around the time Cubase 8 was released, and I still use parts of them today.

@someone_from_germany

Even the user doesn’t know in advance whether he will save the stuff later on.

Exactly.

The difference is that while you might prefer deleting ideas you don’t like right now, I prefer keeping every single one of them.

You never know what you might need in the future right.

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Don´t get me wrong - I think both workflows are perfectly valid.

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I just want to say that if a temporary-project workflow were ever introduced, it should be offered as an optional preference or user setting rather than replacing the current behavior for everyone.

That way, users could simply choose the workflow that best fits the way they work.

[Adrian_C]

For now the only way is the backup method mlib mentioned. It would be quicker and more intuitive to have an option which Reaper offers. The second option in the screenshot, not the red framed one.

[someone_from_germany]

@Adrian_C

It would be quicker and more intuitive to have an option which Reaper offers.

This is great!

Now we have a convincing feature request! I’ve added the feature-request tag.

[Adrian_C]

It works great and I use it all the time in Reaper. Create a new project subfolder (red framed checkbox) AND copy the files into the new real project folder.

Then it is easier to copy and keep your new files in the new song folder and your temp folder tidy without losing anything important because it was saved as another independent project folder with all the relevant audio and midi files.