Feature Request: Write | Edit Duration | Halve Note Duration is problematic

Dorico
1

I use this feature when I’ve started out notating a passage as, say, 3/2, and realized that 3/4 would be better. Issues I have encountered include:

  • If there are any tuplets (e.g. 3:2 quarters), the tuplet unit (‘quarters’ in this example) isn’t halved, so I end up with 3:2 quarters applied to 3 formerly quarter, now eighth notes. This wreaks all sorts of havoc on the score that follows.

  • Things like fermata’s don’t stay with their assigned note – they stay at their pre-halved position. (Why would you ever want this?)

  • Time signatures aren’t halved either. This one’s trickier – sometimes you would want the time signatures modified, other times not. I’m thinking that selecting this option would present you with a dialog box with checkboxes for the elements you want halved.

  • Tempo markings are also not halved, e.g. q=60 isn’t changed to e=60. (Once again, probably need that dialog box!)

(I’m sure all the above also applies to 'Double Note Duration" as well!)

I love Dorico! It just keeps getting better and better!

2 Likes
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Keep insert (I) on. You need to remove the tuplets before you apply the halve duration, then re-apply the tuplets where needed. Everything will work itself out.

Things like fermatas are tied to grid positions, not notes. (Why would you want this? Well, you might not be halving the durations of notes in all players…)

Dorico is extremely flexible about time signatures. But, if you are halving the durations of just some players, would you really want the overall time signatures to change?

Why would they? Again, you are presuming the tool is applied to all the players - but it is not designed for that purpose.

1 Like
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You need to remove the tuplets before you apply the halve duration , then re-apply the tuplets where needed. Everything will work itself out.

So if I have nothing but tuplets, remove them all first? Really? Create a hot mess first, and “Everything will work itself out”? That certainly has not been MY experience! Sounds easier to just re-enter the passage by hand.

Things like fermatas are tied to grid positions, not notes. (Why would you want this? Well, you might not be halving the durations of notes in all players…)

And I MIGHT be halving the durations of notes in all players. My proposal is that this whole feature needs to be more nuanced. I’m proposing a dialog box that gives this feature more clarity.

Dorico is extremely flexible about time signatures. But, if you are halving the durations of just some players, would you really want the overall time signatures to change?

Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don’t. All I’m saying is that this whole feature needs to be more nuanced. I’m proposing a dialog box that gives this feature more clarity.

Why would they? Again, you are presuming the tool is applied to all the players - but it is not designed for that purpose

Why not? My purpose seems like a perfectly reasonable one. Sometimes I want to apply it to all players, sometimes not. All I’m saying is that this whole feature needs to be more nuanced. I’m proposing a dialog box that gives this feature more clarity.

(BTW, I’m imagining that ‘halving a tempo marking’ means that “q = 60” is changed to “e = 60”, and not that text like “Lento” or “Allegro” is changed.)

In my case, I have NEVER wanted to use this feature for just a few players, I have ALWAYS wanted to respell a passage from, say, 3/2 to 3/4 for all players (as I stated in my initial use case description.) I understand that other users may want to use it differently. Of course they will! That’s the whole point of things like dialog boxes in which you can select the details of how you want the feature to behave.

I think this feature is awesome, and on the right track, but IMHO it needs some love to support more use cases.

Halve Durations Dialog Box:

[ ] Halve tuplets (3:2 q become 3:2 e)
[ ] Halve time signatures (3/2 become 3/4)
[ ] Halve tempi (“q = 60” becomes “e = 60”)
[ ] Keep fermati with original notes

[OK] [Cancel]

4

Yes, I agree that there is lots more for us to do to make this feature bulletproof. Unfortunately it’s unlikely to be something we’re working on in the immediate future, but rest assured that it’s certainly on our radar.

3 Likes
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If I had to pick just one improvement it would be ‘halving tuplets’ (e.g. 3:2 q becomes 3:2 e). I think that one makes logical sense, doesn’t need a dialog box, and its absence can really mangle the music!

Thanks!

1 Like
6

I definitely would like to second the request that the “Halve Duration” and “Double Duration” features works for tuplets as well. It’s really one of those places where you can’t help but go… “Really?”
S, F and even MS can all do it without any issue at all, so it’s very strange to me that the halving/doubling function can’t handle tuplets in Dorico.

1 Like
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I disagree. AFAIK MuseScore cannot paste a tuplet across a barline, so if that is the result of doubling duration the operation is not possible.

IMO Dorico’s extend duration is far superior, though, yes, it would be even better if it handled tuplets more elegantly.

8

Hi

Has anyone got a reliable work-round for the halve-duration tuplets at the moment? I’ve got about ten bars of horrible tuplets that I now find out have been notated with the durations doubled. It’s probably less than an hour’s work to simply re-input it tomorrow, but just in case…

thanks

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The only methods that occur to me are:

  • The above within Dorico – requires redoing every tuplet
  • Re-input from scratch – possibly not any slower
  • Export to a midi editor, halve the time there, re-import midi (with the necessary quantization setting), and copy into the score – worth it for a sufficiently long passage
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thanks

re-input it is - my fault entirely

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I should have researched this before halving the note durations in about 200 bars that had tuplets in them. I tried editing the mess it made and ended up re-entering everything. Early music is commonly edited for modern editions by halving (or even quartering) note durations. It also often requires tuplet notations. Dorico simply cannot do this.

I can think of no case where someone going to “halve note durations” would actually want the result they get if there are tuplets in their score.

What about at least popping up a warning if someone tries this? That would be a stop gap until your fix this lamentable hole.

To me it is not a “feature request.” It is a bug that should have priority over new features.

1 Like
12

I also strongly agree that this is a bug and should be fixed. The mingled durations that I get when trying to halve triplets look like undefined behaviour of the program. I am paying for “pro” and “advanced”, as you present it, and this looks a lot like amateur.