Fermata placement for resting players

[sttrumpet]

How do I get Dorico to place a hold over beats 1 and 2 in players that are resting instead of a fermata over a whole rest?

Resting players need to know that the fermata is on beat one and two.

[Christian_R]

Hi @sttrumpet, you can just write an explicit rest with the desired duration (using Force duration). The Fermata will follow automatically:

Select the rest
Enter (to activate the caret)
, (comma, to activate rest input)
O (letter, to activate Force duration)
7 (for half-note value)
C (or any pitch letter, to write the rest)

Using shortcuts:

Or using the left panel:

[sttrumpet]

Thanks, Chritian!

[sttrumpet]

I am working on a drum set part and this solution is not working. Is there something different that I need to do for drum parts?

[sttrumpet]

Hi Christian,
This doesn’t work on my drum part. It does for all the other instruments.

[Christian_R]

@sttrumpet

I am working on a drum set part and this solution is not working. Is there something different that I need to do for drum parts?

@sttrumpet
Yes, for percussion kits a little workaround is still necessary, to input explicit rests (FWIK):

• create a note of the desired value (this will became the rest where the fermata needs to be)
• select the rest after it and activate force duration for it
• delete the note: the rest will be (remain) split thanks to the forced duration

Here the post by @Vadian

Aligning rests in the drums

Sorry, I didn’t notice that Drum Kit staves behave differently. Here is a workaround: Enter a half note and an eighth note with 7 Y 5 Y, the vertical position of the caret is irrelevant. Select the implicit eighth rest after the caesura and press O to force duration. Delete both helper notes.

And some background information:

Forced rest duration for drum set

I don’t think you’re a doofus at all, Gary. Indeed, I would go so far as to say Dorico is actively unhelpful here. As you’ve found you can’t input an explicit rest in a percussion kit – you can only take an existing implicit rest and tell Dorico to make it explicit. I revisited this topic with my colleague Andrew (who did all of the hard work on our percussion notation, among many other parts of the program!) and we came to the conclusion that we should really allow this in future, so it’s on o…

[hrnbouma]

@sttrumpet

Resting players need to know that the fermata is on beat one and two.

This is very much up for debate though.

[benwiggy]

You could try pasting an explicit rest from another part into the percussion score?

(I haven’t tried, but I often copy-paste explicit rests for things like fermata bars, or when I want a quaver plus semiquaver rest instead of a dotted quaver, etc.)

[sttrumpet]

@hrnbouma

@sttrumpet

Resting players need to know that the fermata is on beat one and two.

This is very much up for debate though.

How could this possibly be up for debate? If you have a resting player that has an entrance on the downbeat of the next bar and has a whole rest with a fermata on it, but in fact the fermata is actually on a half rest on beat one and two, the player will be confused as to where their entrance will be. If you create a hold on beat one for a singer and a piano player with the rest of the orchestra resting, the resting orchestra players should see a quarter rest with a fermata over it followed by a quarter and then a half rest(provided you are in 4/4). Otherwise, at the rehearsal you have to stop, have questions as to where the hold is, pencils marking parts, etc. Time wasted. Next rehearsal/performance town/city the tour goes to the players have to ask “Is this pencil good?” Time wasted. “The pencil is a little unclear, can you tell me exactly where the fermata is supposed to be?”(erase, erase..smudge, smear..erase, erase.. rinse and repeat) Time wasted.
If Dorico could be setup with the default being that it displays the fermata on the exact rest in the resting players part and have some kind of toggle to switch it off if you don’t want this, that would be wonderful!!
I know the hard working team at Dorico know about this and have expressed that it will be addressed at some point.

[Derrek]

@sttrumpet

If you have a resting player that has an entrance on the downbeat of the next bar and has a whole rest with a fermata on it, but in fact the fermata is actually on a half rest on beat one and two, the player will be confused as to where their entrance will be.

Now you are moving the goal posts. In some cases subdiving the measure may be helpful; in other cases the position of the fermata within the measure does not have to be so specific.

[sttrumpet]

@Derrek

Now you are moving the goal posts. In some cases subdiving the measure may be helpful; in other cases the position of the fermata within the measure does not have to be so specific.

If you want your players to have as much simple information on the page to play the piece correctly with confidence, then where that fermata is placed is very important. Less time rehearsing/questions, etc.

[Christian_R]

@sttrumpet

If you have a resting player that has an entrance on the downbeat of the next bar and has a whole rest with a fermata on it, but in fact the fermata is actually on a half rest on beat one and two, the player will be confused as to where their entrance will be.

Even if I partially agree on this, nevertheless I would always give the resting player a cue: in the cue the fermata and what is happening around it is very clear (even clearer then the subdivided rest):

[sttrumpet]

@Christian_R

I would always give the resting player a cue

I totally agree!! I would too(as a matter of fact, I did in this case) You still need the fermata on the first two beats, otherwise it puts a little bit of doubt in the players head. Hand in the air, question…Wasted time.

[Christian_R]

@sttrumpet

You still need the fermata on the first two beats

(Just in case: as you can see in my last screenshot, you can activate the fermata visualisation for the cue, locally from the panel or globally in Engraving Options.)

[sttrumpet]

I see that, but I disagree with the whole rest fermata. The fermata is on the first two beats. It is not on the whole bar. Simple. Anything else is confusing. Why not put the fermata over two bars? Or the whole piece?

[Derrek]

@sttrumpet

Or the whole piece?

That’s what Tacet is for.
How precise the placement of a fermata needs to be depends on the circumstances. Do what you like in your music.

[sttrumpet]

@Derrek

Do what you like in your music.

Ha!
Sorry, Derrek, I was stepping into the sarcastic lane a bit.
Yes, there is a work around. But, that completely slows down the workflow.