Hi! I have a fermate doing some weird poopies here
Fermatas work by truncating the note(s) at the fermata position and then adjusting the tempo to compensate. The shape of the tempo curve in your screenshot doesn’t look particularly unreasonable, but are you saying it plays back incorrectly? If so, what’s the problem during playback?
On beat 3 there is an unwanted rush, like 200%
Could you attach the project, or a small cut-down version that reproduces the problem?
Can’t post the full project.
Tried making a cutdown-version, but the the problem didn’t show there.
So, it’s seems like a bug in my full project.
Well, then we have the perfect case where cutting down small parts will (or at least might) eventually reveal the source of the problem…
Wasn’t there some issue some time ago where gradual tempo changes (like “rit.” or “accel.”) that did overlap with fermatas caused unexpected tempo changes?
I copied the example and defined the fermata exactly as you did but the tempo track does not show this “catch-up” tempo change. The curve simply goes down and up again to the orginal tempo.
If you temporary delete the two 8th notes which are sort of an upbeat for the next section does the catch up tempo change still occur?
Just to make sure:
- no hidden sign post related to tempo changes e.g. irregular bar entries in the bars shown?
- Any other staffs with notes below or above the two shown?
- All other staffs correctly show the fermata on the middle beat?
Deleted the 2 eight-notes, no change
I managed to replicate the issue in a cut-down-project.
Please see bar 256 here
Fermata issue.dorico (2.0 MB)
As I mentioned before, the fact that there’s a “catch-up” tempo change is not in itself a problem - that’s just how Dorico implements fermatas. It would only be a problem if the tempo changes affected notes that were not part of the fermata. That isn’t happening in your project.
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A bit more detail in case it’s useful. If a note has a fermata, then Dorico will:
- shorten the note
- adjust the tempo over the portion of the note that isn’t shortened, to create the “hold”
- adjust the tempo over the missing portion of the note, to create the “gap”
The exact amount of the tempo change will depend on the length of the hold/gap, and the prevailing tempo. As long as the tempo change doesn’t affect notes outside the fermata, then it shouldn’t really matter.
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As Richard mentioned the reason for the catchup is the gap definition below 50%.
With a 50% gap, the tempo of the part of the bar after the fermata becomes the same as the original tempo (the default). With values larger than 50%, a long fermata, you get and intermediate tempo before going back to the original. With values lower than 50% , a short fermata, as you entered in the example, will require a faster tempo after the fermata.
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I tried putting a hiddent tempo change on the fermata, and normal tempo on the following beat, and darned if it didn’t do what was asked. Might work for you? Shift T then {q=60), the parens rendering the change unvisible.
If you look at my first post, you’ll see that this is exactly what’s happening. The fermata is affecting notes that are not part of the fermata.
But the issue is not always easy to replicate, that means usually Dorico is behaving well
I would need to see a project file in which the problem happens in order to work out what’s going on. Bar 256 of the “Fermata issue” project file that you attached earlier doesn’t seem to show the problem.
Sorry, I see now the cutdown-project was not showing the error. My mistake.
I’ll leave it at that for now, and come back if I’m experiencing the issue again.
Thanks!
Once more the issue is directly linked to the way you defined the fermata. As you see in the tempo track, visualized by the two highlighted sections, the defined fermata does influence the tempo of notes after the fermata in the same bar. If you do not want the speed up define the fermata as default without any gap indication. If ii is then is too long for. your taste, you can probably add hidden tempo changes.
If I understand your original score example correctly your fermata is the end of one section and the two 8th notes are an upbeat for the next. Maybe splitting the bar gives you the playback timing you want. You might even be able to do it by defining an irregular bar length.
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