I have a question with regards to writing film and television scores. Are streamers, hit points or video time codes included in Dorico in this case?
No, the first release of Dorico does not include these features, but we plan to add them in future.
As a corollary, what about the ability of attaching a video to play with/synchronize with the score? If so, what video formats are supported - hopefully .mp4.
I hope I have not āhijakedā this too much but as I score for film as well, if I had to vote for priorities on everything, synchronizing the video and timecodes on the top (in various formats to match the time code the editor typically puts in the video they send me) would be my first two votes.
You canāt attach video files to the current version of Dorico. This capability can be provided by the audio engine that Dorico uses, but we will need to write a lot of other functionality around it, which will take time.
Hi Daniel,
Congratulation on the launch last night
I realise video etc is way down your to-do list , probably below large time signatures !
Might it be better to take the approach of allowing Dorico to synchronise in/out with SMPTE or MTC, rather than hosting video etc within the program. Hopefully your āfriendsā in Hamburg could hook this up quite quickly.
All of the studio guys I work with including Orchestrators, Engineers etc would love to see a score playback synced to the Pro Tools rig at a session.
Video playback would be handled by Pro Tools, or a software solution like Streamers (http://figure53.com/streamers/)
and galley view of the full score would sync playback with the incoming SMPTE or MTC.
Apologies if Iāve hijacked the thread.
Regards
Dave Hage
No hijacking at all. Thanks for the suggestion, Dave. Once the dust settles and we have dealt with the immediate and pressing issues concerning beefing up playback in Dorico, weāll be sitting down with the audio engine team in Hamburg to figure out the longer-term plans for these things.
Hi Daniel,
I thought as you have implemented large time signatures, I wonder if I could āprodā you about SMPTE or MTC sync.
Many thanks
Regards
Dave Hage
They have implemented markers: Scoring to Video in Dorico | New Features in Dorico 2 - YouTube
This lets you get pretty close for time-based scoring without hard-syncs.
We discussed MTC with the audio engine team in Hamburg last summer as a kind of possible poor manās video feature, if we werenāt able to get the video engine working directly with Dorico then perhaps we could get Dorico slaving to MTC being generated by Cubase, where the video would be running. But because we were eventually able to get the video engine running, we didnāt pursue this any further.
I assume that slaving to MTC rather than generating it is what you would need, Dave?
Hi, I found this older thread by searching for āDorico and MTCāā¦ It seems Dave didnāt reply back in 2018, but personally I would be in need of Dorico slaving to my Tascam DP-02 Portastudioās MTC output. Later threads seem to indicate that MTC was added to Dorico after 2018, but what I read there is that Dorico must be the master for MTC. Is that correct? (I hope not, b/c from all my research, Dorico seems fantastic. But I like using the physical faders on my portastudio over those in a DAWā¦)
Dorico needs to be Master, and a third party plugin (TXL Timecode) is required.
Dorcio doesnāt respond directly to MMC or anything, but it does have the ability to bind key commands with learned MIDI events for a variety of controls, commands, and features.
Transport controls ARE among the list of ākey commandsā that Dorico can have bound to remote MIDI events.
What it cannot do at this time (that Iām aware of) is link remote controls with the virtual Dorico mixing console. At this time, Dorico doesnāt have mixing console automation abilities (VST, nor MIDI based). Instead, you more or less set static levels for instruments and effects, while dynamics and expression are handled with stuff like key velocity, or channel CC events on a per stave basis.
Currently, Dorico supports one set of stereo outputs (Master Output on the Virtual Mixer). The video player can play surround sound I think, but the mixing console itself is designed to mix any and all VSTi instruments hosted down to a single stereo output.
There is no way yet to route āinputsā from your audio interface into the Dorico Virtual mixing console. I.E. Routing the output of a hardware synth/sampler into the Dorico virtual mixer itself.
One can use 3rd party software like Bome or Bidule combined with a virtual MIDI port as a middle application to āintercept and transformā MIDI events. Depending on your portastudio, and how programmable it is, such an app might or not be needed. Iād recommend having something like this handy though, as it can really come in handy if you have a controller that isnāt very programmable in terms of what it sends over MIDI when you poke buttons or move faders and pots, but at least it does always send something unique! Such software could allow you to snoop, filter, and transform whatever it sends into simpler events, and forward those to Dorico via virtual MIDI port.
So, it āmightā well be possible to have the portastudio be a slave to MTC, but also have it set somehow so the transport controls send MIDI CC or MMC events to control the Transport in Dorico. I.E. Tap play on the portastudio and it just sends a command over MIDI (which Dorico could detect and start itās transport, and thus the time code) and waits for the timecode coming back in before it actually starts tracking.
As for the faders and pots on something like a portastudioā¦
Of course youād still use them to mix audio tracks on the portastudio.
If the portastudio can also send MIDI events when you move faders and potsā¦at this time, it wouldnāt be all that useful in Dorico. Upon occasion you might use something like that when doing real time performance recording to a VSTi hosted in Dorico, but then again, itād probably be far more trouble than just using a fader/pot/wheel on your MIDI controller.
I have an old Tascam portastudio of some sort that I used a lot many years ago (I forget the model) in storage, so I have some idea of how those function, but Iāve never tried it with Dorico, and I canāt remember how āconfigurableā it is in terms of its abilities as a remote control device. Iām pretty sure that in the least it could both send and receive MMC events for the transport controls. So, it seems to me like it should be possible to set it to slave with MIDI Time Code and send MMC events for physical tapping of the transport controls. Iām guessing it should be possibleā¦I just canāt confirm it right now.
I do believe a portastudio can work nicely together with Dorico and TXL. Even if one ignores the transport controls on the portastudio, and just do things in Dorico with a mouse and the computer keyboardā¦itād still sync up and give you X number of audio tracks to play with
Personally, Iād probably hook my computerās main stereo outputs (Better yet, go with an all digital USB or SPDIF connection if you have that) INTO the Tascam (Record in real time, and bounce stuff around), and go from the Tascam out to my amp/monitors; butā¦thereās lots of ways you can set it up.
Hereās the good news. You can get a free version of Dorico SE to experiment with. Iām not sure if SE supports binding MIDI events to the key commands, or if it can host third party plugins, but either way, itās worth grabbing if you donāt already have it.
Dorico SE will cost you nothing, provide a nice little intro to the Steinberg ecosystem and Dorico. Itāll get you a peek at the HALion Sonic environment, and unlock a nice set of General MIDI sounds (plus a little) for it. Sonic will also be useable in any VST3/AU/AXX host, and also as a stand alone option. You can also explore the web and find a handfull of free instruments for HALion Sonic
You can get a free timed trial for the TXL Plugin.
You can get trial and free versions of bidule and bome too. Personally I use bidule, but both are excellent. Both have ways to get free stand alone versions to try out.
If you are on Windows and donāt already have virtual port software, loopMIDI is a great option. If youāre on a Mac, virtual port support is built into the Mac OS (In the Audio Control Panel I think).
Piddle with these things together and explore.
When you feel ready to dive in deeper, you can start a free 60 day trial of the flagship version, Dorico Pro.
And one can also get a free 60-day trial of Dorico Pro.
Wow, thank you so much, Brian! Thatās an incredible amount of info, & I appreciate you taking the time to share it all. The issue is right up front, where Dorico needs to be the Masterā¦ my portastudio only has MIDI out. So I could give up right there, but the info you follow up with is interesting, and yields some hopeā¦ I wouldnāt want to automate Doricoās mixing console remotely; setting static levels would do. The single set of stereo outputs is also all the portastudio can accept, so that works (I wouldnāt need to route any audio from the portastudio to Dorico).
I should probably be more specific for what Iām after: while I want to purchase Dorico for the sake of its fantastic notation capabilities, I would also like to use Doricoās playback as the virtual tracks backing the recorded vocals and guitars on the portastudio, and then mix all of it down to a CD-R deck, using the faders on the portastudio. Itās what I do now, but my sequencer software is ANCIENT (as is my notation software), and itās WAY past time for me to join the 21st century!
Thanks to you, I will look into Bome or Bidule and a virtual MIDI port, to see if it can intercept the MIDI output of the portastudio to tell Dorico to start its transport.
I do have to say that it is a shame that when MTC support was added to Dorico, it was limited to Dorico being the masterā¦ slaving Dorico to the portastudio would make my goal so simple to achieve. (The other contender for my money is Finale, and it can be slaved via MTC right out of the box.)
Thanks again for your guidance.
Thank you too, Derrek. Saving money is always appreciated!
Ah, I took a peek at an OM for the DP-02 series, and I see your issue more clearly. It can generate time code and be master, but canāt sync to it. Seems like the Tascam unit I have is much larger, is loaded with mic preamps, and can āslaveā to different flavors of time code. Iāve kept it around for times when I want to easily capture live performances with more than 2 mics (or direct inputs from keyboards/guitars/etc). Itās simple to plug the thing in and get something like 16 tracks all in one go (8 mono mic XLR preamps, plus a hand-full of line-level inputs). Iāve recorded many choir and wind band performance with the thing, and since I donāt have a treated studio at home, I sometimes use it to find a ābetter more quiet roomā to make vocal or acoustic instrument tracks to work with in my DAW later.
In your case a more pragmatic workflow with the portastudio would be to only use it to make live remote recordings. optionally Mix and bounce as required in the unit itself, then pull audio files from it later to mix and match in your favorite tracking DAW that ācanā be synced as a slave to TXL running in Dorico.
You could also craft a nice master stereo or surround sound mix on your porta studio, export it to the PC, mux it into a video wrapper (mp3, avi, mov, whatever), and then compose against that as a reference in Dorico. Under this scenario, you wouldnāt need to bother with time code at all. Optionally, you could embed a SMPTE LTC track in the video file itself (instead of using the TXL plugin to generate it), but in 2024 you need special software or black box extensions (I still have an old SMP7 MIDI router that can convert an audio SMPTE track to MTC) to do much with that SMPTE signal (TXL also makes an assortment of time code products to convert time code types from standalone apps with a PC/Mac).
You could probably export reference renderings (full mix, or individual staves) from Dorico into the portastudio too. I.E. To take the portable unit somewhere and make vocal or acoustic instrument tracks while hearing a rendered Dorico āaccompanimentā. Iāve done similar when I wanted to carry my portastudio to a ābetter roomā to make vocal tracks, or record an instrumental soloist. Ultimately I bring the tracks made therein back into a tracking DAW on my PC.
In essence, without the ability to be slave, such a device is useful to Dorico users to āmake recordingsā remotely, but will be quite limited when it comes to achieving a reliable sync and working with it directly.
PS
VidPlay VST might something of interest.
Iām not sure how it compares with Doricoās native video abilities, but itās worth knowing the plugin exists. I remember some Dorico users taking advantage of it well before Dorico had any video capabilities of its own.
Once again, you have shared a wealth of excellent ideas!
I currently do not use any DAWā¦ thatās another thing Iām in the market for, but not immediately. (It was while researching DAWs, Cubase in particular, that I discovered Dorico.) I take my musical ideas as MIDI files to a producer, and that person translates them into finished recordings for me (one producer I go to uses Logic, another uses Digital Performer). This is not as cost effective as doing it myself would be, so I am looking to eventually go that route.
For now, I just want to replace the sequencer and notation programs Iāve been using, and either Dorico or Finale could do that for me. I appreciate all your advice!
One interesting aspect of software markets these days isā¦
If you invest in one today, you can sometimes usually get significant ācrossgradeā deals for the other tomorrow.
I.E. Full MSR for a brand new Dorico License is $579.99 USD.
If you already own Finale, Sibelius, or Capella, a proof of purchase can get it down to $299.99!
Finale currently has an MSR of around $299 USD. So itās possible to own both Finale and Dorico for around $600. Maybe less if you hunt down a deal, or qualify for stuff like educational discounts.
If youāre on the fence about investing in something big, look into the crossgrade deals. You can ultimately āget it allā with significant discounts on future investments in ācompeting productsā.
These days I much prefer working in Dorico than Finale, but I still use both quite a bit, and the various cross grade options have made it far more affordable. Many people I collaborate with still require things in Finale or Sibelius formatsā¦so thereās that.
Now THATāS an incredible idea, b/c I would only end up spending about $20 more than I would for Dorico Pro alone. And at some point Iāll move on from using the portastudio, so I shouldnāt make MTC slaving the only factor in my decision.
For moving ahead quickly right now, it seems Finale is the way for me to go, but (from what I can tell), Dorico has better features (the tweaking of the playback without affecting the notation for example).
FIO, one of the reasons I ruled out Sibelius early on is b/c Avid seems to be moving to an annual software license model (they havenāt done it yet for Sibelius, but thatās the only way they offer ProTools). Iāve also read that Sibelius is not as flexible (reportedly, itās hard to override defaults when necessary).
Your advice has been invaluable and extremely helpful, Brian, canāt thank you enough! -Tom