Film and TV Scores

I have a question with regards to writing film and television scores. Are streamers, hit points or video time codes included in Dorico in this case?

No, the first release of Dorico does not include these features, but we plan to add them in future.

As a corollary, what about the ability of attaching a video to play with/synchronize with the score? If so, what video formats are supported - hopefully .mp4.

I hope I have not ā€˜hijakedā€™ this too much :wink: but as I score for film as well, if I had to vote for priorities on everything, synchronizing the video and timecodes on the top (in various formats to match the time code the editor typically puts in the video they send me) would be my first two votes.

You canā€™t attach video files to the current version of Dorico. This capability can be provided by the audio engine that Dorico uses, but we will need to write a lot of other functionality around it, which will take time.

Hi Daniel,

Congratulation on the launch last night
I realise video etc is way down your to-do list , probably below large time signatures !
Might it be better to take the approach of allowing Dorico to synchronise in/out with SMPTE or MTC, rather than hosting video etc within the program. Hopefully your ā€œfriendsā€ in Hamburg could hook this up quite quickly.
All of the studio guys I work with including Orchestrators, Engineers etc would love to see a score playback synced to the Pro Tools rig at a session.
Video playback would be handled by Pro Tools, or a software solution like Streamers (http://figure53.com/streamers/)
and galley view of the full score would sync playback with the incoming SMPTE or MTC.
Apologies if Iā€™ve hijacked the thread.

Regards

Dave Hage

No hijacking at all. Thanks for the suggestion, Dave. Once the dust settles and we have dealt with the immediate and pressing issues concerning beefing up playback in Dorico, weā€™ll be sitting down with the audio engine team in Hamburg to figure out the longer-term plans for these things.

Hi Daniel,

I thought as you have implemented large time signatures, I wonder if I could ā€œprodā€ you about SMPTE or MTC sync.

Many thanks

Regards

Dave Hage

They have implemented markers: Scoring to Video in Dorico | New Features in Dorico 2 - YouTube

This lets you get pretty close for time-based scoring without hard-syncs.

We discussed MTC with the audio engine team in Hamburg last summer as a kind of possible poor manā€™s video feature, if we werenā€™t able to get the video engine working directly with Dorico then perhaps we could get Dorico slaving to MTC being generated by Cubase, where the video would be running. But because we were eventually able to get the video engine running, we didnā€™t pursue this any further.

I assume that slaving to MTC rather than generating it is what you would need, Dave?

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Hi, I found this older thread by searching for ā€œDorico and MTCā€ā€¦ It seems Dave didnā€™t reply back in 2018, but personally I would be in need of Dorico slaving to my Tascam DP-02 Portastudioā€™s MTC output. Later threads seem to indicate that MTC was added to Dorico after 2018, but what I read there is that Dorico must be the master for MTC. Is that correct? (I hope not, b/c from all my research, Dorico seems fantastic. But I like using the physical faders on my portastudio over those in a DAWā€¦)

Dorico needs to be Master, and a third party plugin (TXL Timecode) is required.

Dorcio doesnā€™t respond directly to MMC or anything, but it does have the ability to bind key commands with learned MIDI events for a variety of controls, commands, and features.

Transport controls ARE among the list of ā€˜key commandsā€™ that Dorico can have bound to remote MIDI events.

What it cannot do at this time (that Iā€™m aware of) is link remote controls with the virtual Dorico mixing console. At this time, Dorico doesnā€™t have mixing console automation abilities (VST, nor MIDI based). Instead, you more or less set static levels for instruments and effects, while dynamics and expression are handled with stuff like key velocity, or channel CC events on a per stave basis.

Currently, Dorico supports one set of stereo outputs (Master Output on the Virtual Mixer). The video player can play surround sound I think, but the mixing console itself is designed to mix any and all VSTi instruments hosted down to a single stereo output.

There is no way yet to route ā€˜inputsā€™ from your audio interface into the Dorico Virtual mixing console. I.E. Routing the output of a hardware synth/sampler into the Dorico virtual mixer itself.

One can use 3rd party software like Bome or Bidule combined with a virtual MIDI port as a middle application to ā€˜intercept and transformā€™ MIDI events. Depending on your portastudio, and how programmable it is, such an app might or not be needed. Iā€™d recommend having something like this handy though, as it can really come in handy if you have a controller that isnā€™t very programmable in terms of what it sends over MIDI when you poke buttons or move faders and pots, but at least it does always send something unique! Such software could allow you to snoop, filter, and transform whatever it sends into simpler events, and forward those to Dorico via virtual MIDI port.

So, it ā€˜mightā€™ well be possible to have the portastudio be a slave to MTC, but also have it set somehow so the transport controls send MIDI CC or MMC events to control the Transport in Dorico. I.E. Tap play on the portastudio and it just sends a command over MIDI (which Dorico could detect and start itā€™s transport, and thus the time code) and waits for the timecode coming back in before it actually starts tracking.

As for the faders and pots on something like a portastudioā€¦
Of course youā€™d still use them to mix audio tracks on the portastudio.

If the portastudio can also send MIDI events when you move faders and potsā€¦at this time, it wouldnā€™t be all that useful in Dorico. Upon occasion you might use something like that when doing real time performance recording to a VSTi hosted in Dorico, but then again, itā€™d probably be far more trouble than just using a fader/pot/wheel on your MIDI controller.

I have an old Tascam portastudio of some sort that I used a lot many years ago (I forget the model) in storage, so I have some idea of how those function, but Iā€™ve never tried it with Dorico, and I canā€™t remember how ā€˜configurableā€™ it is in terms of its abilities as a remote control device. Iā€™m pretty sure that in the least it could both send and receive MMC events for the transport controls. So, it seems to me like it should be possible to set it to slave with MIDI Time Code and send MMC events for physical tapping of the transport controls. Iā€™m guessing it should be possibleā€¦I just canā€™t confirm it right now.

I do believe a portastudio can work nicely together with Dorico and TXL. Even if one ignores the transport controls on the portastudio, and just do things in Dorico with a mouse and the computer keyboardā€¦itā€™d still sync up and give you X number of audio tracks to play with :slight_smile:

Personally, Iā€™d probably hook my computerā€™s main stereo outputs (Better yet, go with an all digital USB or SPDIF connection if you have that) INTO the Tascam (Record in real time, and bounce stuff around), and go from the Tascam out to my amp/monitors; butā€¦thereā€™s lots of ways you can set it up.

Hereā€™s the good news. You can get a free version of Dorico SE to experiment with. Iā€™m not sure if SE supports binding MIDI events to the key commands, or if it can host third party plugins, but either way, itā€™s worth grabbing if you donā€™t already have it.

Dorico SE will cost you nothing, provide a nice little intro to the Steinberg ecosystem and Dorico. Itā€™ll get you a peek at the HALion Sonic environment, and unlock a nice set of General MIDI sounds (plus a little) for it. Sonic will also be useable in any VST3/AU/AXX host, and also as a stand alone option. You can also explore the web and find a handfull of free instruments for HALion Sonic :slight_smile:

You can get a free timed trial for the TXL Plugin.

You can get trial and free versions of bidule and bome too. Personally I use bidule, but both are excellent. Both have ways to get free stand alone versions to try out.

If you are on Windows and donā€™t already have virtual port software, loopMIDI is a great option. If youā€™re on a Mac, virtual port support is built into the Mac OS (In the Audio Control Panel I think).

Piddle with these things together and explore.

When you feel ready to dive in deeper, you can start a free 60 day trial of the flagship version, Dorico Pro.

And one can also get a free 60-day trial of Dorico Pro.

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Wow, thank you so much, Brian! Thatā€™s an incredible amount of info, & I appreciate you taking the time to share it all. The issue is right up front, where Dorico needs to be the Masterā€¦ my portastudio only has MIDI out. So I could give up right there, but the info you follow up with is interesting, and yields some hopeā€¦ I wouldnā€™t want to automate Doricoā€™s mixing console remotely; setting static levels would do. The single set of stereo outputs is also all the portastudio can accept, so that works (I wouldnā€™t need to route any audio from the portastudio to Dorico).
I should probably be more specific for what Iā€™m after: while I want to purchase Dorico for the sake of its fantastic notation capabilities, I would also like to use Doricoā€™s playback as the virtual tracks backing the recorded vocals and guitars on the portastudio, and then mix all of it down to a CD-R deck, using the faders on the portastudio. Itā€™s what I do now, but my sequencer software is ANCIENT (as is my notation software), and itā€™s WAY past time for me to join the 21st century!
Thanks to you, I will look into Bome or Bidule and a virtual MIDI port, to see if it can intercept the MIDI output of the portastudio to tell Dorico to start its transport.
I do have to say that it is a shame that when MTC support was added to Dorico, it was limited to Dorico being the masterā€¦ slaving Dorico to the portastudio would make my goal so simple to achieve. (The other contender for my money is Finale, and it can be slaved via MTC right out of the box.)
Thanks again for your guidance.

Thank you too, Derrek. Saving money is always appreciated! :slight_smile:

Ah, I took a peek at an OM for the DP-02 series, and I see your issue more clearly. It can generate time code and be master, but canā€™t sync to it. Seems like the Tascam unit I have is much larger, is loaded with mic preamps, and can ā€˜slaveā€™ to different flavors of time code. Iā€™ve kept it around for times when I want to easily capture live performances with more than 2 mics (or direct inputs from keyboards/guitars/etc). Itā€™s simple to plug the thing in and get something like 16 tracks all in one go (8 mono mic XLR preamps, plus a hand-full of line-level inputs). Iā€™ve recorded many choir and wind band performance with the thing, and since I donā€™t have a treated studio at home, I sometimes use it to find a ā€˜better more quiet roomā€™ to make vocal or acoustic instrument tracks to work with in my DAW later.

In your case a more pragmatic workflow with the portastudio would be to only use it to make live remote recordings. optionally Mix and bounce as required in the unit itself, then pull audio files from it later to mix and match in your favorite tracking DAW that ā€˜canā€™ be synced as a slave to TXL running in Dorico.

You could also craft a nice master stereo or surround sound mix on your porta studio, export it to the PC, mux it into a video wrapper (mp3, avi, mov, whatever), and then compose against that as a reference in Dorico. Under this scenario, you wouldnā€™t need to bother with time code at all. Optionally, you could embed a SMPTE LTC track in the video file itself (instead of using the TXL plugin to generate it), but in 2024 you need special software or black box extensions (I still have an old SMP7 MIDI router that can convert an audio SMPTE track to MTC) to do much with that SMPTE signal (TXL also makes an assortment of time code products to convert time code types from standalone apps with a PC/Mac).

You could probably export reference renderings (full mix, or individual staves) from Dorico into the portastudio too. I.E. To take the portable unit somewhere and make vocal or acoustic instrument tracks while hearing a rendered Dorico ā€˜accompanimentā€™. Iā€™ve done similar when I wanted to carry my portastudio to a ā€˜better roomā€™ to make vocal tracks, or record an instrumental soloist. Ultimately I bring the tracks made therein back into a tracking DAW on my PC.

In essence, without the ability to be slave, such a device is useful to Dorico users to ā€˜make recordingsā€™ remotely, but will be quite limited when it comes to achieving a reliable sync and working with it directly.

PS

VidPlay VST might something of interest.

Iā€™m not sure how it compares with Doricoā€™s native video abilities, but itā€™s worth knowing the plugin exists. I remember some Dorico users taking advantage of it well before Dorico had any video capabilities of its own.

Once again, you have shared a wealth of excellent ideas!
I currently do not use any DAWā€¦ thatā€™s another thing Iā€™m in the market for, but not immediately. (It was while researching DAWs, Cubase in particular, that I discovered Dorico.) I take my musical ideas as MIDI files to a producer, and that person translates them into finished recordings for me (one producer I go to uses Logic, another uses Digital Performer). This is not as cost effective as doing it myself would be, so I am looking to eventually go that route.
For now, I just want to replace the sequencer and notation programs Iā€™ve been using, and either Dorico or Finale could do that for me. I appreciate all your advice!

One interesting aspect of software markets these days isā€¦

If you invest in one today, you can sometimes usually get significant ā€˜crossgradeā€™ deals for the other tomorrow.

I.E. Full MSR for a brand new Dorico License is $579.99 USD.

If you already own Finale, Sibelius, or Capella, a proof of purchase can get it down to $299.99!

Finale currently has an MSR of around $299 USD. So itā€™s possible to own both Finale and Dorico for around $600. Maybe less if you hunt down a deal, or qualify for stuff like educational discounts.

If youā€™re on the fence about investing in something big, look into the crossgrade deals. You can ultimately ā€˜get it allā€™ with significant discounts on future investments in ā€˜competing productsā€™.

These days I much prefer working in Dorico than Finale, but I still use both quite a bit, and the various cross grade options have made it far more affordable. Many people I collaborate with still require things in Finale or Sibelius formatsā€¦so thereā€™s that.

Now THATā€™S an incredible idea, b/c I would only end up spending about $20 more than I would for Dorico Pro alone. And at some point Iā€™ll move on from using the portastudio, so I shouldnā€™t make MTC slaving the only factor in my decision.
For moving ahead quickly right now, it seems Finale is the way for me to go, but (from what I can tell), Dorico has better features (the tweaking of the playback without affecting the notation for example).
FIO, one of the reasons I ruled out Sibelius early on is b/c Avid seems to be moving to an annual software license model (they havenā€™t done it yet for Sibelius, but thatā€™s the only way they offer ProTools). Iā€™ve also read that Sibelius is not as flexible (reportedly, itā€™s hard to override defaults when necessary).
Your advice has been invaluable and extremely helpful, Brian, canā€™t thank you enough! -Tom