Fingerings above ornaments

Probably I have tomatoes on my eyes again (as we say in German), but is there an Engraving Option to have the fingerings generally above the ornaments? By default it is the other way around:
Fingerings above ornaments

Select a note which has an ornament and its fingering then go into Engrave mode. In the Properties panel, under Fingering and Positions try enabling Slur-relative position and see if that has any effect - the two choices are Inside and Outside.

Selecting “Outside” in the properties does the job, but I was hoping there would be a general option.

As far as I can see there is no mention of the case in Elaine Gould’s “Behind Bars”, but in the Henle and Wiener Urtext editions that I just looked through, the fingerings are always above the ornaments. Even in the Engraving Options > Fingering > Position > Horizontal gap between fingerings it is shown that way.

Engraving options Fingerings above ornaments

Try Engraving Options > Fingering > Position > Vertical Position > Position of fingerings relative to slurs, octave lines, and tuplets: > Position outside.

Obviously, this will also affect the position of fingerings relative to slurs, octave lines, and tuplets, so if you have any of those you might need to check that the fingerings there do/don’t need to be re-positioned.

Thanks, @StevenJones01, this is probably the best solution. Music with ornaments usually has few slurs and octave lines.

It is only a tiny thing anyway, which can be easily altered manually. But if the developers at some point can’t figure out what more important things to do, they could consider an Engraving Option to set the fingerings above the ornaments, or simply make this the default.

I’m with you, Juerg_Loeffler. Fingering never separates a note from its ornament because the two are a single inseparable unit. And in my experience, it never does. I just checked numerous editions by the best publishers and couldn’t find an exception. I believe that the present default is incorrect and should be changed.


Fingerings appear inside ornaments for boring technical reasons, not because we think it’s correct. It’s something we would like to improve, but it’s non-trivial for us to do.

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Thank you for taking the time to explain that, Daniel. I’m sorry it is a difficult problem to solve. At least there is an a good way to reverse the behavior. But being very literal, I would have had trouble finding it under “slur-relative position”, if not for this thread. In any case, in tracking. this solution down, I found the “slur-relative position” setting which seems to help with many case of the main issue that is plaguing me regarding fingering and slurring.