I agree with 100% Brains. But if someone asks what a term means, when they have a search engine, it comes across as them being lazy and ourselves doing their research for them. If I ask what is the best way to mic my drumset, and someone tells me to google it, that would be unfair. However if someone asks what a DAW is, that would be a time to make use of Google. I’ve seen similar to both scenarios on this forum.
Agreed master, you are almost always right (can’t think of if you were ever wrong that I’ve read what you’ve written) however there is no requirement for anyone to answer any post and if the premise is that a newbie, eg new user(name) has asked a question and yet it took a potential answerer time to read, then the possibility is such that the reader may need to take some time out and alas make some music…
You make some valid points. I could really see it either way. However, I’m not seeing enough unnecessary “Google it” or “RTM” replies to warrant complaints. That’s just my opinion. Rather we should be teaching our newbies proper forum etiquette: not to whine when our first response isn’t a miracle solution. I’ve dealt with a couple of those recently.
With, say, Reaper or Sequel etc, newbie questions can be met mostly as they are.
With Cubase there should not be that many newbies. It’s not necessarily the financial cost. The cost of running such a complex program should first be to learn or have obtained a reasonably savvy knowledge of engineering expertise, which need not be to a brilliant degree. Second to have researched or spent a couple of weeks with the manuals (which is very, very important) and to run through the tutorials or just routined oneself with the basic set ups that a typical studio might need, be it a Project, personal or commercial studio.
Third to spend some time on the web researching computer requirements and procedures for the type of sofware installed and what the typical problems might be.
**Just because a DAW is a hundred times smaller than an old analog studio doesn’t mean it’s a hundred times simpler to learn.**So, taking that in consideration anyone calling themselves a “newbie” means that someone hasn’t done the exercises outlined above. ie: (is taken as) they are treating Cubase as a rich kid’s toy. This also happened in analog days too. Any fool with a half million dollars could buy a studio and tie himself up in knots and ending up asking the guys who spent ten years mastering their expertise to bail them out when they should have spent a couple of years in college learning engineering instead. I know. I worked in a couple of studios like that. Studios would be calibrated and speakers put in the right place then the “owner” would move the speaker because he couldn’t see the drummer through the control room window.
What I’d like to see is more politeness from newbies when faced with an answer that they do not like or understand, given by engineers who donate their time and expertise for FREE.
The attitude seems to be that us “experts” should be grateful to get such clever questions from persons not bothered to learn the basics.
Saying all that the occasional new user who comes in and has obviously thought about, or rethinks his question eventually is usually accorded a very polite welcome and the proper advice is given. The attitude being that this is a guy who will listen and not constantly moan for weeks about what colour his drum track is.
And when he gets the right colour drum track and finds he can’t moan about the product any more he complains about the FORUM posters.
I think there’s a learning curve for newbies in how to post their questions and use a forum such as this, not just in learning their DAW/audio engineering, and the like. They may not yet have years and years of learning web search techniques, or even how to post in fora where the most common term isn’t “SICK!!!”, or something.
IMO, holding them to those standards is just as inappropriate as expecting them to understand why (for example) they get a “funny sound” when they combine their original track with a delayed one. I’m fine with posters who don’t know basic things. When I started out, people like Bas, Woodlock, Neil Wilkes, vic_france (and many others) answered my “dumbest” questions imaginable with respect and patience. I try to remember that, every time I read a post like "NO SOUND DUDE - URGENTTT!!!
New users are OK. Users who think “computers are easy so Cubase is easy” and who assume every oversight on their part (ok, in Cubase there are many things to overlook) is a bug in the program.
They sort of come under the header of “Complete beginners” and a forum for a product like Cubase should really have a section for complete beginners.
Simple questions from complete beginners are often more served by saying read the manual than trying to explain from in the forum.
Probably changing the name of the manual to “handbook” would encourage more complete beginners to use it more effectively. I think it’s a less offensive sounding admonishment.
In fact I’ll try to reprogram myself to use the word handbook.
If I get a funny anything, never mind sound, the last place I’d go to for a solution would be a forum. Everyone should have enough Cubase using friends out there locally to go to first off.
If the problem is anything like complex then by the time forum members have worked out what most OPs actually want fixing the OP has fixed it, been on holiday and got married.
I think that what starts tension between noobies and those attempting to help is confusion concerning the subject at hand. Let’s face it, most of us that go to help were rather recently somewhat nooby ourselves. I myself have had no formal education in this area, and can speak only from the little experience I have had using the application with the equipment I have. When the noob, starts complaining about us misreading the topic, giving incorrect advice, or exchanging inside jokes with other members it does prompt the helping party to be rude and give the noob the RTM advice. The same goes for those attacking Steinberg for an oversight on their part. Most of the time, the newbies set the tone for the type of answers they will get. Those who are humble and cordial get friendly and informative answers most of the time. Those other ranting, profane fools don’t.
Indeed (I’m really having hard time to figure out how many times I’ve agreed with Conman). And good points from you too, Bane!
Well … I used to be a nooby back in 1980’s … if that’s recently or not is a matter of opinion. The information available back then was quite limited and I really had to do my own homework to learn sound engineering. And this is one of the reasons why I hate this:
If someone “misreads” the topic, it’s one of two cases:
The question asked in the topic was badly formed. Probably because the person who made the question doesn’t even understand what (s)he’s asking.
The person who replied indeed misread the topic but answered in good faith.
In both cases it really sucks, when noobies starts complaining.
At least they do from me. Those who aren’t find me acting like Nate II. I know I shouldn’t, but …
Of course, it would be nice if everybody would try everything in their power to get the answer before using our time by coming here. Unfortunately, not everyone does. Should we tell a user to read the manual? If we feel like it, yes. Nothing is stopping anyone else from saying it, no matter what we say here. Should Steinberg intervene?
Heck no!! You run a few of us diligent posters off and the Cubase forums are nonexistent. They know that.
Also think about this: some of these idiots don’t know to check the manual! Reference here-first page in the lounge.
This is another case of users being too sensitive to the forum interaction taking place here. It’s just a forum; there are others to get info on Cubase from. No matter what’s said here, it rolls off my back. I hope it’s the same with the adult noobs here as well. Or these forums have bigger issues.
BTW, anyone noticed that this topic’s predecesor was moved to News and Announcements?!!