First Post - Multi VST Out?

Cubase
1

Greetings Steinberg Forum!

Not a noob, but new to Cubase. It’s the only DAW I’ve not tried in the last 15 years and finally decided to give it a whirl (After S1 destroyed their GUI in ver. 3) and to my surprise I am completely loving it!

The only aspect I’m finding somewhat more difficult than Logic / Studio One is Mutli VST outs.

I’ve figured out how to keep it from creating a double track when dragging midi in but am still not finding the workflow I’m looking for.

I’m a long time RMX user and am wondering if anyone would mind sharing their workflow with me.

Ideally I’d like to have 1 instance of RMX with multi midi tracks assigned but can’t figure out how to have the automatically generated mixer channels for RMX’s A,B,C,etc, outs show up in the session view (sequencer).

Normally I’d create an RMX Group folder with a single RMX instance and 8 midi channels assigned to it that are visible and editable in both the Mixer and Session windows. I can’t seem to figure out how to accomplish this in Cubase.

Should I only create Midi tracks instead of instrument tracks?

Thanks in advance for the help,

~C

2

Hi and welcome,

First, Add an Instrument track with RMX, this will create the RMX instance. Then Add MIDI Tracks and route their Outouts to the RMX (it is possible it already will be routed to RMX). Done.

If you want to jse multiple Outputs (Audio Returns) from RMX, click in the Inspector to the Out icon (looks like this: [-> ) and enable these Outputs. New Instrument Return channels appear in MixConsole.

The “double track when dragging MIDI in” issue is a bug somewhere between Cubase and RMX. You cannot solve it on your side, sorry.

3

Hey Martin,

Thanks for the reply. I’ll try it with just midi tracks.

I had figured out how to enable the returns, but was hoping to not have both a returns track and midi track. Good thing CP8 has Zones :smiley:.

I had also figured out the double track issue. Under “Import Options” you have to deselect “Auto Desolve Format 0” and ensure Destination is set to “Midi Tracks”.
MIDI_import_options.jpg
Thanks again.

4

You can easily hide all the Midi tracks in the Mixer using “Filter Channel Types” (in the Mixer toolbar: the button to the left of the Configurations button).

5

Hi

I quess its worth mentioning that there are potentially two different ways of using VST Instruments within Cubase

The VST Instrument Rack and the Instrument Track.

The VST Instrument Rack in Cubase works pretty much the same as it works in Studio One. You put an Instrument to the Rack and can assign miditracks to it and enable the audio outputs. But these Miditracks can also be assigned to a different destination if you like. This is often confusing for people coming from S1 as Instruments Tracks in Studio are basically just miditracks assigned to an Instrument in the rack or going to the outside world. This is what actually a midi track in Cubase is.

The Instrument Track in Cubase on the other hand is a miditrack that is hardwired to an Instrument wich is wired to an Audio output on a single Track. Prior to Cubase 7.5 this was a single Stereo Out track and not meant for use with multi timbrial Multi out instruments. It should provide an easier way to use mono timbrial single Out Instruments such as Synths. Alot of people demanded Multi Out capabilities and with Cubase 7.5 Steinberg introduced the Instrument Track 2.0 wich is now multi out capable. The main Midi Track on this is still hardwired to the instrument but you can assign more miditracks to it.

6

Perfect. Thanks for the clear and concise rundown. Makes sense.

One of the things I’ve been amazed about Cubase is how many ways there are to do the similar things. Outstanding DAW.

So… essentially, make 1 Instrument Tack and then 8 midi tracks, assign them to the right RMX channel, and group them?

Is there a benefit to using the Rack?

Thanks again everyone.

~C

7

I’m relatively new to Cubase but have been working hard for the last four months or so and I’m just now starting to feel comfortable with it. Here’s my take on the “Instrument Track” vs. “Rack Instrument” issue.

For Multi Out VSTs use it as a Rack Instrument:
Cubase started with the Rack concept then added Instrument Tracks. The Rack is invoked by hitting F11. “Always hit F11” You can also keep your Rack on the screen or not.

For any VST that provide multiple outputs, I use those. I use one VST Output for each MIDI channel I’ve assigned an instrument (patch, program) to use. For example: Piano 1, MIDI channel 1, VST Out 01, Bass , MIDI Ch. 2, VST Out 2; Guitar, MIDI Ch 3. VST Out 3. Just be careful to assign your MIDI tracks to the correct VST Output.

I put the MIDI Tracks into a Folder or Folders and the VST Instruments Audio Outputs are kept below.

I mostly keep the MIDI Faders “OFF” and do gain staging and mixing with the audio outputs.

However, Cubase is highly flexible and a different set-up might work better for you. When you put time in a project, save it as a Template as well as a Project. Then you can call it up and you’re not starting from scratch.

If a Synth has only one output, I am finding I still prefer to load it as a Rack Instrument. Either way, you more or less end up in the same place. Some stingle out instruments still offer and good deal of polyphony, so at times even a single instrument can have multiple MIDI channels. I like having any of those tracks addressable with Quick Controls and rack controls.

I’m finding that using Synths as Rack Instruments helps keep things organized. The more I work with Cubase, it seems that the advantages of using Rack Instruments outweighs the “Track Instrument” concept.

I first thought that using Racks for only Multi-Out VSTs would be the way to go, but it just seems easier to all the synths into the rack; and then F11 brings it up, or it’s right there in the visible rack.

For me, at my level using Cubase (Pro 8), I’m finding that using all instruments as Rack Instruments is the way to go. This aspect of Cubase confused me at first, but, I think, there is good engineering logic at work.

Good luck. Give it time, it builds as you go.

8

Thanks Stephen.

Great info. I’ll try to solely work with the VST Rack for a few songs vs. the Instrument Track to see how the workflow feels.

Out of curiosity, how has CP8 been performing on your i5? I’m on a Mac Pro now but plan to move my house and studio to PCs. Having 4 Macs to replace (all 2008 models) is just too much $, so PC it is. It seems like there’s less latency with Cubase on PC.

Thanks again for reply and the clear explanation. Exactly what I was hoping to glean here.

~C

9

The beauty of it is that you can decide your workflow for your self.

Good to hear that you also appreciate that things can be done in many different ways. There are people out there who are overwhelmed by the cheer amount of possibilities you can do the same thing in several ways an find the detail you have with this disstracting.

I purely go with the Instrument Tracks now for several reasons:
An Instrument setup in a Rack can (maybe i do something wrong here) not fully be stored as a Track Archive. The Instrument in the Rack and its corresponding Outputs is never be stored no matter how hard i tried. That only works with Instrument Tracks. So imagine you have done a great job on mixing your drums with multiout setup all the grouptracks and Effect channels and you want to store this with the complete signal chain as a track archive to reuse it in a different projekt. Only works with Instrument Tracks.

I find the Rack a bit confusing especially when using several Instruments. But this is a matter of personal taste and preferences.

so go try both methodes and than decide wich suits you better.

I run C8 on a second gen I5 (HP Elitebook 8460p) and a sec gen I7 2600 custom Build desktop system with 16gb ram
Both win7 64bit

I have no problems with performance and expecially on the I7 i can go very low with my buffer
Problem is that most PC’s don’t work this way by default. You have to make some adjustments.

Turn off any kind of energy saving in OS and Bios. Speedstepping of any kind is also not appreciated. So EIST C1E yada yada should be turned off in Bios. Energyscheme at max performance. Hyperthreading can also be tricky but in most cases might not be a problem. Also turning of hardware you don’t need in bios if possible.
The most crucial part howerver is the chipset, network, USB3 drivers etc. from the manufacturer of you mainboard or laptop. Don’t use the generic drivers that come with Windows and its updates. They do not perform good enough.
I expecially noticed the difference on my laptop. When i bought it and immediately run some test after booting the mashine it was completely useless. Systemlatency check with latencymon reveals some major problems.
After applying all or most of the steps i discribed above it now runs smothly with systemlatencies that can handle realtime audio perfectly fine.

greetings Novik

10

I’m getting good performance from the machine. I think anything from i5 and above with adequate RAM will be workable.