Flirting with PT

Yeah, they REALLY care about these sorts of posts…


We currently run four large Nuendo systems and two PT systems. We lost two Nuendo seats to PT9 due to Steinberg’s excessive memory consumption problems on large multi-hour projects and those folks really like PT9. Additionally all the Nuendo users have PT and use it for projects that don’t need Nuendo’s features. I use Nuendo when I have the choice which is 90% of the time, and use PT when needed. I have gotten used to the key command differences. If you want to be good, and want the work, you need to be proficient in PT no matter your personal or work preference.

Now that PT finally has items that others have had for years like clip gain and no fade files it’s becoming more attractive to those who don’t need Nuendo’s exceptional speed features like superior editing and automation. I don’t know what the future holds but Avid’s moves in the last few years have made it more attractive, not less, and it will be interesting to see where Nuendo heads to stay competitive.


There’s a missing feature in PT that keeps me getting back to Nuendo : non realtime export. When doing 1hour + mixes, it’s a showstopper missing feature for me.
Other than that, yeah, PT is coming really closer and sometimes even further (I like their mixer design/functionality & playlists).
But man, their update pricing is getting a little bit crazy. Makes the jump from my Nuendo 3 to 5.5 looking really cheap finally…(considering I’d have to buy the CPTK to get disk caching, surround, higher track count etc…).

Steinberg should, for once, copy missing PT features. Avid just did it anyway…

Same here, Bredo.

and that’s why I found the SB crossgrade offer kind of ‘amusing’… Now if Pro Tools offered such a cross grade I would definitely buy it.

Me too. Not that I want to drop Cubendo completely… but… well… too much showstoppers in the current versions.

Sigh! Me too… Been a long time Nuendo user and advocate since 2002. But the producer I’m working with now loves ProTools and he edits in a flash with the program… the album I recorded and mixed in the spring with him was entirely in Nuendo at my request, and he relented. For the last project we recently completed, it was all ProTools though at his request, as another studio was involved that uses ProTools exclusively.

So I have PT10 now… mostly because it’s now a core audio/ ASIO fully native application so it can work on my existing system, and because all the people I’ve been working with on projects use ProTools. But the real push for me to learn it and use it more is based on the fact that a friend was selling his old ProControl main unit and Edit Pack to me really cheap ($400!) and I already have the $3000 Argosy console 90-PC32-RR studio furniture that fits it (long story, but I’ve modified it to work with the included racks and blank desk inserts for the last 7 years.)

So I have so many things pushing me to ProTools right now… but I’ll still love Nuendo and hope to continue using it long… probably just on a laptop, and for post product projects that I hope to start doing in the next couple of years? I can always set my Euphonix MCMix/ Artist Mix up on top of the ProControl when I want to use Nuendo…


What amazes me though is the virtually complete lack of sense that they’re trying to understand and meet our needs, at least in a timely fashion. And it’s not like people here are all whining either.

Consider the call to make it possible for a person to buy a Nuendo upgrade in another country. No dice. Do you want to sell and promote your software or what? At the very least what you could have done was say: “Hey, sorry man, apparently our organization sucks, so we’ll send you a digital download half-price.” But nothing.

Consider our repeated calls for a good Nuendo-specific controller, for years. A user managed to program a d8b to control Nuendo - by himself - before SB/Yamaha managed to put out even a comprehensive update to the o-series mixers for example.

And when SB finally releases controllers they’re low-budget controllers marketed for Cubase.

Consider suggestions for a crossgrade offer to PT users to capitalize on discontent in Avid’s userbase. It would hopefully grow the Nuendo user base, spread the word, and be generally good publicity. Weeks after the PTX release and discontent there’s an offer… NOT advertised. Just sort of hidden on Steinbergs webpage. Do you want to sell Nuendo copies or not?

Fader groups in the mixer? VCA’s? Stop leap-froggin?..

No response, or too late.

I agree with others in this thread: If there was a crossover offer to PT I’d jump on it in no time. Nuendo is fantastic, but as fantastic as it is as unresponsive and unconvincing of its future is SB. Not so with Avid. Unfortunately.

And lastly, while some may say “Oh, something is around the corner… just wait”: That is just the problem - some people won’t wait! Some will switch (as has many already). Just announce what’s coming already!!!..

There might be a couple of things we have not addressed yet, but from your post I read that Nuendo is pretty useless compared to ProTools. I also think that the “lack of response” statement is not true anymore - especially compared to what is currently happening in the PT world. Do you honestly see PT users at least getting “some” answers in the forums?

“Something is around the corner” might not be helpful in any way. But over the years, the collaboration Yamaha/Steinberg has developed and is stronger than ever before. For example, the Nuendo product line up will be even extended “in near time” (here it is again!!). 2012 will be an interesting year for Nuendo. Most likely the most important since its introduction. No, I’ll not make any promises regarding months or dates.

When time comes, it will speak for itself.

Timo, you know most times I always give you the benefit of the doubt, and truthfully I haven’t gone on DUC for years to know how responsive on the forums are… however from third party forums I can tell you, that pro tool users are happy that Avid seems to be finally listening to them… you dont’ get the same feeling from cubendo users…including me…since the start of N5, I have had to broken features that I have reported ad nauseum. Constantly developers change features, like lanes etc and users are outraged? why cause it isn’t done as a preference it is done as a fait accompli… as a we know best to hell with you…

we shall see what 2012 brings, but I have lost hope.

The next maintenance update was scheduled for the 2nd week of December. We’re currently still working
on a solution for some important AAF issues that have been reported by many users. This delays the Nuendo 5.5.2 update a bit, thought we hope to get it out of the door before Christmas. We could release the update in the current status, but this would not make much sense for those having problems with AAF exchange and would make things more complicated.

After that, there will be another update end of Q1 2012 that includes new features and improvements, e.g. with regards to the “lanes” behavior, which is based on user reports.

For end of Q2 2012 we have another N5.x update scheduled.

From there, it is not “too far” away until Nuendo 6.

I said Nuendo is “fantastic”. But compared to Pro Tools it’s lacking some important features, and it’s also not as commonly used which is a problem no matter what you think about that. Actually being in the US working in Post it’s essentially ALL PT. That’s just the way it is.

Granted, you did move towards improving compatibility between the two by enabling easier conversion mono/stereo, so that’s a step forward for sure.

Yeah, actually I do. And I mentioned responsiveness as being “too late” for a reason. When PT users got upset over the upgrade pricing etc you guys did nothing. You didn’t lift a finger (as far as users are concerned). It was weeks after official Avid employees went online and explained their policy, and expanded their “grace period” offer to users, that you announced HERE that there was a crossgrade! You announce a crossgrade to Nuendo on a Nuendo forum? And on the main website the information is just a little link between a bunch of other links in the lower right side?

The problem here is that you appear to be out of touch with your user base. See here for example:

And yet it might. How many times do you have to hear your users say “I really need to know what’s coming because I need to invest. If I don’t hear anything I’ll have to move to PT instead.” before it becomes “real”? Users are telling you this directly, right here, on this forum, and yet you’re saying “it might not be helpful in any way”.

Even if this is of little direct concern to you financially, the perception of you doing nothing can’t be a good thing in the post-pro-engineer community. The leap-frogging is horrendous, the seeming focus on Cubase not confidence-inspiring and your perceived attitude of knowing better than the users what the users need even a bit condescending (no offense intended).

Well, in all honesty, that sounds exciting. I really mean it. I look forward to what that will mean.

But while we’re waiting for that moment where you announce your fantastic 2012 line-up people are looking at other options, simply because not all companies move at a snails pace. I, like others, have my eyes open on alternatives. If I get an offer to get PT at a crossgrade discount I’ll take it. Not because I think it’s 100% better in all aspects, Not because I enjoy working in it more, Not because of any philosophical issue…

Simply because it IS the de facto standard and you’re showing me little in terms of a longer term plan.

Until then Avid speaks for _it_self. Can you afford to have us wait?