Thanks for your reply Jon, I’ve tried this… But I don’t find it it works because the lyrics are not assigned to particular notes, so the further you move them, the more they get scrunched up together. The main issue seems to be that Dorico doesn’t differentiate between assigning a lyric under a note or a rest. Best case scenario… You can move a handful of lyrics a small distance. But beyond that you’re gonna run into big problems. Maybe I’m missing something?
I tend to copy and paste hyphenated lyrics (from a word processor) into Dorico phrase by phrase.
Adjusting (shifting) lyrics after entry is not a productive workflow (yet) in Dorico. Once assigned, syllables are organized by fixed position in each measure rather than by association with the notes above them.
No, the reason being that lyrics, like most things in Dorico, are assigned by grid position, rather than being properties of notes like velocity or articulation marks.
One especially great thing about Dorico re Lyrics is you can option-click them anywhere in the score… kind of like the Finale “Clone Lyrics” tool - but simpler. And, it’s easy to change what “line” (verse) the lyric is on in the Properties panel…
I am adding lyrics to a multi-flow score; the main language is German, and it includes an English translation. Lots of melismas and of course separate vocal lines for SATB.
The methods outlined upthread work, as long as they work and one does not make an error in entry. But. I will take it that Dorico’s implementation of lyric entry is still a work in progress. I’d even say the lyric entry tools are the bare minimum needed to allow access to the highly superior handling provided for lyric lines once they are in the grid.
I will put in my bid for future improvements to flesh out these specific items:
- Abolish or limit the use of the Lyric popover. It provides a tiny peephole into a lyric line, exposing one bit at a time. It requires arcane keyboard shortcuts for navigation (as do all popovers, granted, but I should be able to see at the least a line at a time when I am working with that line.
- Develop a tool for shifting syllables when the user messes up placement. I picture the lightest-weight implementation would be handles on syllables with dotted lines leading to the note to which they are attached. Move a syllable, and the attachment point changes. This is exactly what happens for other score elements and embellishments; why not for syllables?
- With that done, make it possible to “clone” lyric lines from one staff to another, or to a group of staves. If individual lines vary in rhythm, it could then be easily corrected staff by staff.
That last item is the most important to me. SATB is cumbersome enough, in that I need to enter a line, select that line, copy it, then paste the individual syllables into the Lyric tool in the next line; go back, copy the translation (1*), paste the individual translation syllables into the Lyric tool after ensuring I’ve remembered OPT-DownArrow–selecting the translation sub-line—and once that’s done, going back and doing it twice more.
Imagine that for a double-chorus, or a score for 12-part chorus (yes, really).
This is where I hope that programmatic solutions would save some seriously time-consuming scutwork. There is genuine brilliance in the Dorico framework, and I’d truly appreciate seeing this aspect of the software enhanced to expose more of that to the end user.
You do know that you can use the “Duplicate to Staff Below” command on Selected Lyrics? Or just Alt-click the selected lyrics to a new staff or another bar.
If you have key shortcuts to Filter Lyrics from the current selection and Duplicate to the Staff Below, it’s a couple of taps to fill SATB from the top line!
Syllables are attached to beat positions, and you can move them by the grid duration, same as anything else. Obviously, if your lyrics are attached to notes of different duration, then you can’t ‘rotate’ them by one note, but you can move any selected syllables by an eighth.
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This would require a fundamental rethink and redesign of lyric function in Dorico. The independence offered by the current design is really useful… option (alt)-click any syllable or selection anywhere in the score to see what it can do.
I find it really fast to load the popover with the hyphenated lyric, then cmd-(alt)-V (or spacebar) as fast as I can sing the lyric. My only gripe is when I goof… my request would be that they add an “undo” function to the popover. Right now the only way out is to exit the popover (escape), then undo, then go an make a selection of the entire lyric from the interruption point, paste it into the popover, and resume entry.
Any comparison to Finale is somewhat risible, to my way of thinking, given the indescribably awkward behavior of Finale’s Lyric Editor window and other quirks. Option-clicking is so much quicker than the clone lyric tool, in my experience.
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Well, I do now. Following your kindly offered tip, I was able to duplicate lyrics easily. Thank you for that.
I would be happy (with all humility) to be pointed to any place in the documentation that explicitly describes this. In dealing with lyrics, the documentation walks the user through using the Lyrics popover to copy and paste, beat by beat. The section on selecting large areas mentions notes and “items” but obviously I overlooked the connection that a lyric syllable is an “item.”
Would you please describe this in more detail? Which mode are you in? How are you selecting the individual syllable?
Kinda the same question as above. OPT-click’ing a syllable on Mac in Write mode does nothing whatsoever. In Engrave mode it also seems to do nothing more than what would be accomplished by clicking a syllable without the modifier key. I’m aware that syllables can be slid; I found no easy way other than deleting and starting over to attach a syllable to a different unit on the rhythmic grid.
Agreed; see above.
Where did you get a “comparison to Finale” out of my comment? I intentionally did not mention Finale because I’m doing my best to encounter Dorico on its own terms. Since you mention it, Finale’s problematic (mis-)handling of lyrics is legendary, and every attempt MM and other developers ever made to fix it introduced at least one new issue. I emphatically do not want Dorico to replicate that miserable swamp.
I’d be really glad to have more detail about OPT-clicking, since I’m clearly missing something here. In general I think my requests are not off-base, though we can clearly cleave number 3 off the list!
Thank you both!
Well, it’s not about opt-clicking the syllable itself… first select a syllable, then option click at any other location elsewhere in the score and see what happens… and you can do that with any element in Dorico, btw
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Thank you for clarifying your original post.
Everything is an item! One of the great things about Dorico is that everything behaves in a similar way. E.g. You can flip lyrics to the other side of the staff by pressing F, just as you can for slurs, staff-attached text, and other things.
In Write mode, select a lyric. You should now be able to move that, left and right, by the grid duration, using Option-Right or Left.
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Yes, I see that and that works for me, somewhat. Unfortunately, not so much if it is a syllable in the middle of a line of syllables. Moving a middle syllable appears to push the syllables to its right “off the cliff”; i.e. deletes them. I have better results pushing syllables to the left from the end of a phrase. Is there something I am missing about this that would avoid the “lemmings effect”? 
I agree that it’s great having everything be an item. Following your statement, it seems like it would be more consistent with the UI behavior for lyric syllables to display attachment handles, so the user has a cue as to where each syllable is attached and whether that is the user’s intention. The functionality I was seeking in my second point is obviously there, but it relies in some measure on blind gestures rather than explicit indicators which exist for other items.
And, I’m still not crazy about the Lyric popover itself. It’s consistent with the UI metaphor Dorico uses, and I can certainly use it; but I’d still like an option to type directly under a note.
Thanks for your help!
Lyrics attach to a grid point, not to a note. The Popover detects notes on entry, but leaves them at the grid point.
Yes, if you move a syllable into the position of another syllable, it will overwrite it – same as notes. (If you turn on Insert mode, then it will move “above” the syllables in its path.)
Being one who frequently has to fix mistakes (or make adjustments to entries) while entering lyrics, I finally figured out an efficient way to do it rather than deleting the errant entries -
What do to if you goof entering lyrics in Dorico:
•There’s no “undo” while the Popover is active, but you can move selected syllables along the Grid to put them under the correct note. Deleting syllables is less efficient than moving them after a fix.
•You can command(alt)-click multiple syllables to move them to the correct location (option-right or left arrow), then select single syllables as necessary to algin them properly with syncopated notes.
• Once you’ve done your fix, the remaining lyric is still in the Popover and you can resume pasting from the next syllable after the last, previously-entered syllable,
•If you have an unwanted word extension after doing the fix, just double-click the syllable and press the spacebar and it will update properly.
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Got it, and I’ll keep chewing on that. It probably doesn’t change the intent of my wish, but good for me to keep in mind. Thanks.
Interesting. Probably not much use for that capability. 
Stuff for me to work on. I figured out COMD-click pretty quickly (there’s a lot here in common with vector design programs), and once I’ve had a chance to digest your methods both here and further upthread I will try them out.
Thanks to you both!
Wouldn’t this be controlled by the grid resolution?
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