Forced rhythmic notation and tied notes

Hello!

When using forced rhythmic notation and tied notes something strange happens. The tie act as a slur and the notes are not tied. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug? See pic.

/O
Skärmavbild 2016-12-31 kl. 15.52.15.png

Hello Olfdan.

I do not understand. Do you use force notation entering a minim, and this is the result (which would be very strange) or do you input an eight tied to a dotted quarter ? If that is the case, and you wish to see a minim, do not use forced notation… Sorry if I misunderstood, my english is not always accurate enough.

I use forced notation otherwise the rhythmic spelling gets very strange. I enter a 8th note tied to a dotted quarter note, and the tie behaves like a slur. This is happening only when using forced notation.

hi olfdan,

i think i know what you’re referring to. in your example it appears that when selecting apparently tied notes they don’t select as a unit (which is the usual behavior in Dorico). they probably don’t play as a unit either.

it turns out that when using forced durations to include tied notes, the ties aren’t true ‘Dorico style’ ties. appearances are truly deceiving in this case. see my attachment.
TiesInDorico1.0.jpg

Exactly, I find this frustrating. I very often need to use forced rhythmic notation especially in odd meters and shifting meters. This must be categorised as a bug. Hopefully a future update will sort this out. Btw, playback is as you pointed out not correct either.

Happy New Year!
/O

yup!

you might be interested in this thread:

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=109209

happy new year to you too!

-t

If you set the illustrated measure as [2+2+1]/4 (and hide the time signature if you wish) and enter dotted-quarter, half-note, dotted-quarter, the program should give you the indicated rhythm without forced durations.
rhythm.png
I admit, I do not know what is happening in other parts, since they are not shown, but perhaps those should be the rhythms forced.

thanks derrek that seems to work well. it would however, lock one into a particular rhythmic pattern. curiously, if you add a measure defined as [1+2+2]/4, Dorico will put another time signature of 5/4 into the score but the panel that indicates the used time signatures will only show the first version of the time signature and not the second (second attached image).
SameButDifferentTimeSigs_ties.jpg
Screen Shot 2016-12-31 at 12.37.58 PM.png
the first inline jpg attached shows both version of 5/4. in the base clef the differences are shown - the tied “c’s” in the first measure reflect the 2+2+1 pattern while those in the second measure reflect the 1+2+2 pattern.
SameButDifferentTimeSigs_ties.dorico.zip (200 KB)
-t

I do not understand your point. What do you want to see? If you want a bar in 2+2+1 and another as 1+2+2, you can define the measures differently–and you can hide the time signatures you do not want to see.

Unfortunately I cannot give further advice until I know what you want to appear in the different staves and measures.

(You did notice you now have two 5/4 icons in your time-sig-selection pallet, and they are subdivided differently.)

(You did notice you now have two 5/4 icons in your time-sig-selection pallet, and they are subdivided differently.)[/quote]

actually, no, the screen shot of the time signature pallet doesn’t show that at all. what it shows is the ONE 5/4 time signature with a drop-down showing the subdivisions.
Screen Shot 2016-12-31 at 12.37.58 PM.png
if what you’re saying is that when you downloaded the dorico file i attached and there were two time signatures that’s something I don’t see.

-t

dorico 1.0.20, mac os 10.11.6

Hi!

This behaviour is really frustrating, since it affects playback. Furthermore, if you take the one bar I added as example, that bar you can get right rhythmic spelling (with ties!), by changing the way the 5/4 is divided (as Derrek pointed out). That works well if all the parts divide the 5/4 the same way. This is not the case in this score.

The problem is that in other parts there’s a different way the 5/4 is divided. In short, half of the parts are 2+3 and the other half is 3+2, and at some points theres also some short lines that divides the in in to two 5/8ths. The only way for me to get right rhythmic spelling is by using forced.

It’s a nightmare going through all the parts checking the ties. This is not practical!

/O

I have read in another thread that you can specify your rythmical divisions (inputting [2+3]/4 or [3+2]/4 where necessary) without having those metric signs appear on the score (but showing a signpost). I would think this is the most elegant way to handle your purpose.

Marc!

Thanks for that! Will see if I that works.

All best!
/O

As Marc says, you can set different subdivisions of 5/4 on different staves and then hide the time signatures leaving only flags behind.
meters.png
To -t

I get two 5/4’s in the panel: the newly created version and the standard version.
timesigs.png

Thanks a lot! This is most useful. Still many things to learn about Dorico. I’ll check this.
/O

And btw, those flags are copy/pastable. So you if you write in 5/4 and there is a random pattern of alternance instead of a regular one, you can actually enter the music, write a couple of hidden time signatures, and then copy and paste the flags where you need

thanks derrek.

the point i’m making is that in the music i’ve used 2 re-defined 5/4’s (one is 2+2+1 and the other is 1+2+2) and yet only one of them is shown as ‘used in the flow’.