FR: Controlling the number of hyphens

Sometimes I don’t like how Dorico calculates hyphens between syllables over long melismas. I frequently make use of “Gap between hyphens,” but a setting that works for one spot might not work for another. I’d like to be able to control hyphens in each location independently. For example, here:

I would like to adjust the distance between hyphens here so there are two (or so that the hyphens are situated equidistant within the space between the two syllables).

At present, I have to move hyphens manually and drag unwanted ones off the page, which is not ideal.

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We could potentially, in future, allow the distance between hyphens engraving option to be overridden via properties.

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This would be a perfect solution IMO. Thanks for considering.

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Related question. I’m not very good at lyrics but according to Gould.
(see below) this is something I have to edit manually in Engrave mode, correct?
Is it important or could I just let the hyphens span the rest measures?

Jesper

I’d say, yes: just carry on. I wasn’t aware of that requirement in Gould, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it: I’ve always assumed that hyphens would just continue, as it’s a clear indication that there’s more to come.

Though one would hope that long periods of rests between syllables of a word is a rare compositional ‘effect’…

Thanks Ben, I have a few of these in a piece I’m trying to clean up. Not my own music, but trying to be as correct as possible. Maybe I just stick to Dorico’s default then. Still would be a usefull option to have in Engraving rules.

Jesper

If it’s just a short rest, I definitely wouldn’t mess about with it.

No, it’s one or two bars in a few places. On the short rests I already use the Dorico default like in your example.

Jesper

Edit: and thanks, Ben. Good to hear from an expert.

Here’s an example from the piece:

Jesper

I wouldn’t write “ee”, unless you want a long ē. And no hyphens at the end of the word – assuming that there are no more syllables, of course.

Gould does discuss how to specify a final consonant of this sort somewhere.

A slightly different take on the topic: I’m having a lot of trouble with a score right now where I need some syllables set without any break between them at all — the spacing is tight. Removing the hyphens seems to require switching the syllable type to “whole word.” (Is there a better solution I’m missing?) I’d love for the automatic engraving to allow for words to be set “whole,” with no hyphens or whitespace between the syllables, and for it to kick in when the spacing gets appropriately condensed.

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Yes, this has been requested, and I agree it would be really helpful in tight spaces!

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I expect I was one of the people who requested it at some point along the way!

Ha, turns out it was wrong. The ee comes from the composer’s Estonian background and should indeed be just e. And it should be emptiness so ti and not ty. Well, the piece isn’t finished to her excuse. Thanks Ben.

Jesper

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One option is to enter the syllables without hyphens, and then add them before and after each syllable manually using the “edit single lyric” dialogue. It makes it pretty trivial to add hyphens where you need them now.

This is also an easy way to deal with second endings in repeat structures.

That I will have to try. Didn’t know that Romanos.
Thanks a lot. What a great Forum this is!

Jesper

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