For lyrics like “all-seeing” or “thrice-holy,” it would be helpful to (have the ability to) differentiate between a true hyphen (part of the word) and a discretionary hyphen (used only to divide syllables). This really is needed for lyric exports, as it currently requires a careful eye.
I can’t help, but just out of interest, what does each look like (ideally)?
No difference in appearance, just semantic differences under the hood. “thrice-ho-ly”
I guess what I envisioned is that all hyphens continue to be the same until the user clicks the option in Engraving Options, then he can input true hyphens using a different key command (Opt-Shift-hyphen?).
So you want “true hyphens” to be some other kind of hyphen, like a non-breaking hyphen, when lyrics are exported?
I was thinking something like that. I seem to remember using a specific “character” (‑ with the semicolon following, in creating epub files (whether html, xml, dhtml --I don’t remember); something similar to typing   (followed by a semi-colon — I get the " " if I type it correctly) I haven’t had a chance to look it up and had no idea if it would work. My other thought(s) were to add a special character to a font (even if it meant using a parallel font for the word in a local paragraph style). If it would work, it would be cumbersome but at least something.
-–Jim
There’s no entity in xml/html for that, but it is unicode: 0x2011
Funny, (‑ ‑) — I just pasted what I looked up and typed it out. Both show the nb-hyphen…. (Your unicode is correct.)
Unfortunately you only get the code instead of the nb-hyphen when you input it. ![]()
And just grabbing my ipad keyboard to give a “suggested” try, the alt/option+hyphen produces an n-dash or em-dash.
Great! I had to download the Keyboard Maestro trial on my mac and figure out how to enter it (ended up pasting from a website) but it appears to work! Thanks! ![]()
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I was just able to replicate this with Stream Deck (Mobile) using system text and pasting the non-breaking character. ![]()
And using the UniChar app on iPad, I was able to add a non-breaking hyphen in Dorico for iPad.
I may be misunderstanding, but I think this misses the point. I want the hyphens to act normally in the lyrics, breaking the syllables as they should be. But some are part of the word and some are not.
Dan, maybe we’re missing something! ![]()
How do you want it to look? I was expecting something like “all- see - ing” (or possibly “all- - - see - ing”, where the hyphen that is part of the word “all-seeing” would be attached to the syllable “all-“ instead of being detached “see - ing”. Can you show us an example (even handwritten)? ![]()
Hey Dan, I think we’re getting hung up on the hyphen instead of the export (and a way to tell them apart in the export). This is something I haven’t done (exporting lyrics) but wouldn’t the export be “thrice-ho-ly” with the hyphen in “ho-ly”?
Still, I see that one wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. What I think you’re asking for is a different character (glyph) that functions the same as a hyphen (selecting this on entry will move to the next syllable and be placed with the same spacing) as if you pressed the hyphen. Is that correct? If so, I can see why the NB hyphen won’t work. (I have an idea but I need to test it!)
I do have a related question, though! And this is due to my ignorance of traditional engraving practice. In your example (“thrice-holy”), the hyphen is part of the spelling of the word whereas the hyphen between the syllables in “ho-ly” are connectors (for lack of a better term) showing that the syllables belong to the same word. How does the singer differentiate this? (Does it matter, or am I being overly OCD?)
What happens during a melisma (are additional hyphens added between “thrice” and “holy” — i.e. “thrice - - - - ho - - - ly”?
I hope you understand that I’m not challenging you (or centuries of engraving practice), I’m just trying to learn something I’ve never thought about or run across!
Thanks!
– Jim
Dorico’s lyric export automatically strips out syllabic hyphens.
Yes, I should have specified that, thank you. The resulting lyric export would be “thriceholy”…
Thank you @Lillie_Harris.
And @dan_kreider for that last little bit!
I’m on an ipad right now and tried this but can’t figure out where the export was saved! (It seems to be an oversight in the save routine that doesn’t allow me to pick a local folder!)
Dan, what happens if you change the property for “ho” of “holy” to “middle” rather than “start” (or maybe a different syllable)? Will that indicate something to Dorico to preserve the hyphen? (Lillie?)
[Edit] Or, do we need another property type that calls for the hyphen to be preserved in export?
No, changing the property currently doesn’t make the hyphen stick.
Actually I do like the idea of a property to preserve the hyphen.
So Dan, allow me to summarize this!
We have a feature request to provide a way to allow for compound words in lyrics to be exported.
A phrase that includes a compound word like “thrice-holy” needs to be input as “thrice-ho-ly” in the music as lyrics. But when it is exported, it becomes “thriceholy” missing a necessary hyphen.
The request is to have a way to get the correct export (“thrice-holy”).
Possible solutions include pressing a key combination for the necessary hyphen (which may be a key command shortcut) for a special character, or to add a property to the hyphen or associated syllable to preserve (or add) the hyphen in the export lyrics command.
Of course there may be other ways to accomplish this and we would happily defer to the programming team!
Does that seem to cover it?

