I’ve encountered a rather frustrating bug while working with Dorico (currently running the latest Pro version). As a long-time user who has been using the software since its launch, I’m quite experienced and familiar with its quirks, perks, and workarounds. However, I’ve been noticing an issue in my recent projects that has become increasingly disruptive.
It seems that, once a project reaches a certain level of complexity—perhaps due to having too many frames or too much content—Dorico starts shifting frames unexpectedly. This happens after seemingly minor edits, sometimes even on entirely different pages.
For example, I just adjusted a single notehead on the second page of a project, only to find that all the frames on the first page had shifted vertically by varying amounts. Alignments I had painstakingly refined over 15 minutes were suddenly out of place, forcing me to redo everything. I’ve observed this behavior after other simple actions as well, such as shifting a note an octave, inserting text, or making other straightforward changes.
I understand that I may be pushing the software beyond its intended use in some ways, and that this could lead to unexpected behavior. However, as a professional notation program, Dorico should be able to handle alternative notational approaches without resorting to such destructive behavior.
With tight deadlines, bugs like this significantly slow me down and make the creative process much less enjoyable. It’s reached the point where I no longer trust the software to keep things where I left them and feel compelled to export a PDF of each page after verifying it.
Has anyone else experienced this issue? Are the developers aware of it? I’d appreciate any insights or solutions, as this is becoming a serious obstacle in my workflow.
Hi @pinto, I think that the Team would need to see a reproducible example of the issue, to be able to make a concrete statement. If you could upload a project that present the issue and indicate the steps that cause the issue, I think it would be very helpful to diagnose the problem. (You can use, in Galley view in case you have a Condensing score, the Transform/Pitches functionalities from Write menu, after selecting all, to make your music not recognisable, but keeping the structure of the score).
While I’m unable to share any project files here due to privacy concerns and the fact that this is music yet to be premiered, I’d be happy to provide them directly to the team if needed.
In the meantime, I’ve found a way to consistently reproduce the bug and have recorded a short video as an example. In the video, you can see that changing a pitch on the 2nd page by a quarter tone causes all the lines on the previous page to shift upwards. If you look closely, you’ll notice that the upper lines are only slightly displaced, while the lower ones (strings) are shifted significantly. This misalignment is particularly problematic because the strings no longer align with the scordatura indications. Additionally, reverting the pitch change does not correct the frame alignment—once displaced, the frames remain in their incorrect positions.
This is exactly the behavior I described earlier. The only “workaround” I’ve found is to quit without saving—which is in itself problematic and assuming I even notice the issue immediately, which isn’t always the case.
I see @pinto. The displacement is unfortunately evident because the strings “incipits” are probably on different music frames and you edited manually the instrument labels and groups.
I am sure someone more knowledgeable then me will tell more about why this happens, and why, if you undo your quarter tone edit, the layout and the staves shift doesn’t return as before.
But may it be only a temporarily optical shift that corrects himself after saving and reopening the file? (did you try on a copy of the project?).
Did you check the numbers of system spacing when in Engrave mode/System spacing, if they actually change? (just thinking)
@pinto
I watch your little video on this screen of a mobile phone, so I can’t spot everything clearly.
Yes, it’s unfortunate that you have indications to the left in a separate frame; as it looks to me, Dorico does some recalculation in the main music frame once you have changed a position of a note (even if it’s just a quarter tone accidental). It is strange though that this recalculation happens on the prior page in your layout. The only reason I can think of is, you might have some linked or grouped dynamics (f.e.) spanning over those two layout pages. Could you try to ungroup/unlink those and see what happens? This all on a copy of your project, of course.
Yes, the scordatura indications are on separate music frames, and the labels have been customized due to having multiple instruments with their names removed (to allow for staff line number changes without triggering instrument change warnings). There’s even a white text frame covering some automatic, incorrectly numbered labels from Dorico. So, there’s quite a lot of overlapping frames. Could this be triggering the issue? It’s hard to say, but it certainly seems odd.
The staff spacing values in the Layout Options remain unchanged, yet the staves still get displaced automatically when triggered by a change on another page. Interestingly, your guess was spot on—I tested this on a copy of the project and saved it after the displacement occurred. Upon reopening the project, everything was realigned as it should be, with the quarter-tone change intact.
This is certainly fascinating behavior, though not exactly reassuring. The idea of having to rely on “save and reopen” as a fix isn’t the most comforting solution for maintaining alignment during editing.
@k_b you’re absolutely right—if there were no indications on the left, I likely wouldn’t even notice the displacement. Unfortunately, there’s currently no other way in Dorico to achieve this notational standard, so those indications are essential.
It’s also quite curious (and somewhat amusing) that the recalculation affects a completely different frame from where the triggering change is made. I checked for linked and grouped dynamics and found a few connections, including a crescendo in the oboe that was grouped with an fp across pages. However, even after ungrouping and unlinking all dynamic markings, the issue persisted. It was a good guess, though!
At this point, what exactly triggers the recalculation remains a mystery to me.
I think as you have set up your template with very complex extra frames, Dorico’s general rule to do all musical edition before even touching the layout seems more valid than ever, especially here.
@pinto, if you could please send me your project together with the steps required to reproduce the problem, I will look into it. You can email it to me at d dot spreadbury at steinberg dot de.
