Further Improving Cubase/Nuendo Editing to compete with other DAWs (a deep study and review)

Cubase
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Steinberg has made many great strides in workflow editing improvements over the past 5-10 years which has been fantastic - users getting their small “boring” editing features integrated can be difficult because the benefit of their implementation is end-user time accumulative and thus aren’t really update-selling features…

Only users who have a developed sense of foresight into time based benefit of such features being utilized over a year of working 14 hours a day in the studio will get excited about them - but - that doesn’t mean that a hobbyist who works only 1 hour a day: 1.) wouldn’t benefit from them without maybe realizing, and 2.) Such features have user retainment when they try switching to another DAW and realize they are missing it and 3.) a simple/the simplest editing feature/protocol omission could be the difference between someone switching to Cubase from a competitor and not.

In addition with these types of features/protocols, it’s not any one individual of these features that will make a huge difference - but their accumulative combination in day-to-day use and material specific use cases.

So this thread will be an accumulated curation of these features to match their perhaps accumulative necessity with links to their individual threads, and this thread can also serve as a general discussion about them, the stated philosophy as well as how Cubase stacks up to other DAWs small but important editing features.

Probably the three main concepts in this thread are going to be:

1.) Command/Function/Protocol/Tool consistency

2.) Track-Selection based editing protocl.

3.) Competitive features/protocols.

Cubase Editing

Cubase has a lot of fantastic and powerful editing features, protocols, and customization… There are so many awesome key commands combined with Macro and PLE… Pretty much where there is a will, there is a way - and I like that.

But Cubase editing has been a journey from being primarily a MIDI/Orchestration/Sequencer DAW to a competitive post/music-production and audio editor.

Because of that journey - there are a lot of different ways to do certain editing tasks, ie, as of today in the program you still have the ability to do things the old way of Cubase SX3, or the new way, or “this way with the new new way”, etc, etc…

Where as with a program like Pro-Tools, there is just - the way.

One thing to understand about Cubase editing, is that there are some non UI integrated/noticeable editing protocols and conditions based on a number of crossing variables:

-Certain preferences being enabled/disabled
-Track selection
-If an event or events are selected or if none are
-Selected Tool
-Key Command type

I can guarantee there are people who have been using Cubase since SX3 who still aren’t aware of some of these things, or how they can be positively utilized.

Next, comes all the different ways of doing “Group Editing” - you have the old way of ctrl+g event-grouping, you have lanes, you have TrackVersion+ID syncing, you have lanes→TrackVersion command, you have FolderTrack group editing mode, you have FolderTrack block events, you have parts/editor, you have Global Edit commands/functions, you have track selection based commands/preferences, you have PLE and macros and a million key commands which allow you to script your own editing functions… etc, etc.

There is a lot we have. BUT, do we have the way. Does Cubase have its way? Does it have its way but it needs to be further consolidated?

Personally, I use ALL the above features and love them and love Cubase - I reach Mach speeds with my editing and I don’t see anyone in other DAWs working faster than me… But I’ve invested a ton of time into studying Cubase, experimenting with it, scripting hundreds (thousands) of my own PLE/macros, and in general am a fairly tech savvy individual.

I think in terms of Cubase having its way of doing modern multi-track editing is intended to be done somewhere within FolderTracks/FolderTrack Group Editing and Lanes vs TrackVersions.

In general, there could probably be some small improvements and protocol adjustments in these areas of which I will get to, but in the context of competing with other DAWs (Pro-Tools) and having crossover useability for users who use both, and or would consider leaving Pro-Tools, perhaps there is a bigger question of whether these amenities are good/similar enough - and I might have some simple solutions for that as well.

And also perhaps, tying in some improvements/fixes to Track-Selection based editing.

Actually on that, because of the addition of all these features over such a long period of time - there is maybe some disconnect and sometimes conflict between them, and thus they exist sort of as separated children of divorced families, rather than a family in one home.

A Brief History - Event Group Editing, FolderTrack Editing, Lanes, etc

I was pretty young when I worked a summer job to afford Cubase SX3, young enough that my productions were simple enough to not utilize or even acknowledge FolderTracks thus just realizing now, basic FolderTrack editing (without the group function) existed since SX days.

I had always used Ctrl+G Event Grouping across multiple tracks to do multi-track editing.

Lanes didn’t come until Cubase 6. Prior to that, you would just record over existing events, and then do ‘Events to Part’.

I still use Ctrl+G Event Grouping as well as Parts, but not for working-day-to-day editing duties.

Event Grouping I’ll use to keep events/parts across multiple tracks that are symbiotic in their relationship to form the essence of a music arrangement part in which I will be often moving around, duplicating/repeating, copy/pasting, etc, saving me from always having to manually reselect each event which can be cumbersome through folder-tracks, open automation lanes, other tracks/events that aren’t part of the grouping, etc.

Audio Parts I still have a number of uses for. One is to preserve/consolidate a lane comp in which I may be about to continue recording onto the same lanes of which at some point (previously would destroy the comp, there is some level of history now) might accidently destroy my comp.

Another use for audio parts is to similarly, keep the comp together but also alternative muted clips that could be useful options for further later deeper editing/fixes, alternative parts if the part gets pasted elsewhere, etc, etc. For smaller sections, and for composition/arranging I prefer this over TrackVersions which I use more as a total edit revision history of the track and backup of audio files.

Also useful, is using Audio Parts for keeping for example, some musically edit-chopped (drum beat/sounds) clips/events together as a single entity that can easily be moved around, repeated, duplicated and then re-opened or extracted later on, rather than bouncing it to one audio file.

I believe FolderTrack Group Edit was also added in Cubase 6 along with Lanes. TrackVersions was added 7.5.

I mostly do my editing/comping with Lanes, mostly utilizing TrackVersions as a sort of track based revision history and backup of files, for example: I have a raw untouched multi-lane recording → duplicate version → do a comp → duplicate version → delete muted/bottom parts → duplicate version → do finder editing/clean up → duplicate version → do gain editing → duplicate version → bounce → duplicate version → do spectralayers, bounce → duplicate version, and so on.

I don’t really do much cross-editing between TrackVersions unless I’m looking for a fix, alt-take, a replacement syllable, etc, etc - just the odd need here and there. this could change with some new features and adjustments.

Sometimes, I’ll use TrackVersions in recording situations where, perhaps we’ve done 8 takes and then have decided to take a different direction, or aren’t happy and pick things up the next day on a fresh TrackVersion, still keeping the previous recordings on a previous Version.

Selection Based Commands/Protocols, Preferences, and Tools

(And improvements)

I’ll start talking about improvements/ideas here as these base core functions are obviously what is used within all the editing amenities in Cubase.

Cubase has a ton of commands, and there a large number of crossing variable conditions that will output a different action depending on equipped tool, what is selected or not selected, which preference is enabled/disabled, command type, etc.

Basically In Cubase, you have two, technically three types of editing Protocols - Global, All Tracks/Timeline and Event(s) Selected. Cubase doesn’t really have Track-Selection Based Editing, you have to manually accomplish this with key commands, some of which depend on utilizing the playback cursor.

(The closest thing to multi-track Tack-Selection Based Editing, in Cubase is creating a FolderTrack and enabling Group Edit, but it depends on event starts/ends being perfectly sample aligned)

It’s a little bit random which commands do what for each tool, if something is going to be track-selected based, or global/all-tracks/timeline… (:light_bulb: FR) And there could be a case for there to be a “select no-tracks” function/command to diversify abilities.

Selection Commands vs Tools

Object Selection Tool

-Select From Start To Cursor (Timeline only) - Selects all objects/events before cursor
-Select From End To Cursor (Timeline only) - Selects all objects/events after cursor

-Left Selection Side To Cursor (N/A for object selection tool, range only)
-Right Selection Side To Cursor (N/A for object selection tool, range only)

-Select in Loop (Timeline Only) - Object Selects all events found within the playback/loop locators)

-Select All On Tracks (Track Only) - Object Selects all events on selected track(s).

-Select Events Under Cursor (Track Only) - Cursor selects objects on selected tracks.

Range Selection Tool

-Select From Start To Cursor (Timeline or Track) - Range from start of project to cursor
-Select From End To Cursor (Timeline or Track) - Range from end of project to cursor

-Left Selection Side To Cursor (Track/Pre-Selection Only) Extends Selection to Cursor
-Right Selection Side To Cursor (Track/Pre-Selection Only) Extends Selection to Cursor

-Select in Loop (Timeline Only) - Range Selects all events found within the playback/loop locators across all selected and non-selected tracks.

-Select All On Tracks (Track Only) - Range Selects all events, from start of first event to end of last event, on selected track(s).

-Select Events Under Cursor (N/A, only works for object selection)

:light_bulb:There are some inconsistencies here within each tool itself, but also in comparison to each other.

Select From Start/End To Cursor (ObjectTool = Timeline Only | Range = Timeline/Track) with the Object Selection Tool, will select for all tracks in the timeline… whereas… with the Range Tool, if you make a small selection first, and then execute the command, it will only be for that track… And if there is no selection or the user uses Select-None command, it does a timeline/all-tracks selection.

Left/Right Selection Side To Cursor, this only works for the range tool and is only track based given that it requires there to be a selection already… However :light_bulb: , I don’t think there’s a reason it couldn’t work and be useful for the object selection tool, for example, instead of having to mouse click drag to select multiple events, they could locate the first, select the last and then execute the command:

Select in Loop (Timeline Only) is an interesting one. For Object Selection Tool, it selects all events inside the loop including ones that extend outside, whereas, obviously, the range tool creates a selection within the loop. What’s interesting is with the range tool, where with the Select From Start/End To Cursor could work for track only if you made a pre-selection first - this does not work for Select In Loop:

Personally, I would like to see ‘Select in Loop’ become both Track and Timeline based.

-Select Events Under Cursor (Track Only|Object Select Tool Only) This has the potential to be a Track AND Timeline command, as well as a Range Tool command of which currently does nothing… Interesting with the Range Tool, if you double click on an event, it will range select the length of the event:

desired select events under cursor behavior:

Combo Tool

These discrepancies become combined into the Combo Tool which is perhaps why I struggled to adopt it and get used to it - I Use all these key commands a lot, and also have them programmed into various Macro/PLEs of which won’t function properly when using the Combo Tool. (perhaps an FR :light_bulb: in itself, an OFF Command for Combo Tool, or rather - all key command/preference toggles should display themselves as a expandable tree in which commands can be assigned to top level toggle, or sub level on, off)

A practical conflict example that is non-macro/PLE, is ‘Select Events Under Cursor’…
If a Range Selection was previously made, the command won’t work, even if there is no current range selection (in the video, I used select-none prior to executing command):

Some of these could be improved and made more consistent a number of different ways: a.) The addition of a ‘Select No Tracks’ command/function, b.) The creation of more track-selection targeted commands and or c.) the development of a double command execution logic toggle.

All three of these development pathways have their pros/cons for the end user…

  • ‘Select No Tracks’ if the current function/command protocol were going to change around this new command and the condition state of whether or not there are tracks selected affecting old command/functions - that could upset some users. It would likely need also a new preference: ‘Timeline Based Commands Focused To Track Selection’. The benefit to this command is it could be utilized within PLE/Macros. It’s also likely there would be a need for some Undo/Redo Track Selection Commands for Macro/PLE programming purposes, and thus would also require a Track Selection History in the background (could actually be a useful feature for track to track editing)

  • New dedicated Track-Selected Based Targeted Commands are probably the safest/easiest, but, it’s a lot more key commands to remember and map, my keyboard is pretty much already completely mapped.

  • Double command execution logic toggle, an example of this would be hitting ‘Select Events Under Cursor’ once to select events under cursor on selected track, and then hitting it again to select events under cursor for the entire project. The downside is that double command logic can be difficult to implement/cause problems in Macros/PLEs because they depend on current project state (selection, location, etc)

  • New ‘Select No Tracks’ command protocol adjustments:

    • In order to execute Global/Timeline/Locator/Cursor commands that affect all events as they previously have, users would first need to utilize the ‘Select No Tracks’ (new protocol), as well as deselect event/range selections (current protocol).
    • This starts to open up new Track-Selection based command protocols for example:
      • Select In Loop can now become Track-Selected based.
      • Select From Start/End To Cursor can now become Track-Selected based.
      • Select Events Under Cursor can remain Track-Selected based, OR now, Timeline/Project enabled via ‘Select No Tracks’
    • Users can create macros ‘Select No Events’+’Select No Tracks’+’_________command’ in order to achieve previous 1-key/command global/timeline functions
      • There could be some discrepancy/contention here about losing track selection, but all in all, users are editing on a track level more often than global.

  • Double command execution logic toggle

    • A user would hit the same key command more than once to make different types of selections, some examples would be:
      • Hitting ‘Select Events Under Cursor’ once would select events under cursor only for selected tracks. Hitting it again after the initial selection, would select events for all tracks with events under cursor.
      • ‘Select In Loop’ once = selected tracks only | twice = select all events all tracks in loop.

note: Some of the selection tasks, and other things talked about in this thread - could be solved/emulated with some clever Macro/PLE programming (which I have), BUT, a downside to that instead of direct integration is that much of that programming depends on the PLAYBACK cursor, meaning you would have to interrupt playback in order execute a certain Macro/PLE, or wouldn’t be able to if in the process of recording, or worse, interrupt recording accidently. In a working day, it is often needed to be able to edit and playback/record at the same time.

Auto-Selection/Selection Protocol Preferences

There are a few selection preferences to think about, and how they can tie into this context - command behavior, Track Selection vs Timeline, etc.

  • Track Selection Follows Event Selection
  • Auto-Select Events Under Cursor (Also sometimes doesn’t work with Combo Tool)
  • Range Selection Follows Track Selection

Track Selection Follows Event Selection
For me personally, I find ‘Track Selection Follows Event Selection’ the most useful and almost always have it turned on… I don’t really have much need to be selecting an event on one track while viewing the channel of another (sometimes and FX channel), whereas seeing the channel of the event I am manipulating or have selected is much more common. And it also ties into Selection/Editing Command workflow very nicely.

:light_bulb: There is some quirky behaviour/protocol with it under certain conditions:

The command ‘Select None’ (events) causes it to lose its track selection back to the first track:

Not sure if this was intended behavior, but it can be a bit problematic - for one, just with general key command and mouse editing and is sort of fighting against track-selection based editing, it can become annoying. But It’s also a problem for Macro/PLE programming.

Auto-Select Events Under Cursor (Track Selection dependent)
Can be very useful under certain circumstances, I’ve used it when doing a lot of chromatic sample editing, asset editing, dialogue/vocalist editing, etc. If you are using it for multitrack purposes, it doesn’t play well with ‘Track Selection Follows Event Selection’ unless all events are perfectly aligned.

Not much to really do with it, perhaps maybe a global version of the preference ‘Auto-Select Events Under Cursor (Timeline), because then ‘Track Selection Follows Event Selection’ and it, could be used in tandem.

Range Selection Follows Track Selection
Is an interesting one, it only works within the process of selecting tracks… It won’t continue to make multi-track selections for those selected tracks, you’d have to reselect the tracks each time which I created a PLE for:

Unless there’s a reason it doesn’t, I think it should continue to “follow” the selected tracks.

Note: imo, these preferences do need become a tree list of three assignable commands
-Toggle
-On
-Off
Because they can cause problems for certain Macro/PLE functions, and or, are useful ‘On’ for certain Macro/PLE functions - of which Toggle is a problem for either intent.

Edit Commands vs Selection vs Tools

Split Range (Range Only)

Split At Cursor (Selected Event or Timeline/All Events) range doesn’t focus it

Split Loop (Object Selected Events or Timeline/All Events) range doesn’t focus it

Cut Head (Object Selected + Cursor, or Range Selection) no timeline/all events which is safe

Cut Tail (Object Selected + Cursor, or Range Selection) no timeline/all events which is safe

Crop Range (Range Only)

Global Copy

Cut Time (Range Selected Events/Tracks, Or Locators Timeline/Global) doesn’t work if range tool active despite no selection:red_exclamation_mark:

Paste Time (Pastes at Cursor regardless of selection)

Paste Time at Origin

Delete Time (Range Selected Events/Tracks, Or Locators Timeline/Global) doesn’t work if range tool active despite no selection :red_exclamation_mark:

Paste Relative To Cursor

Insert Silence (Range Selected Events/Tracks, Or Locators Timeline/Global) doesn’t work if range tool active despite no selection :red_exclamation_mark:

If you’ve made it this far, you can perhaps start to see how improving selection command consistency can tie into editing commands, and how

‘SELECT NO TRACKS’, decoupling Locators/Timeline/Global commands, would allow for a protocol of ‘TRACK-SELECTION BASED EDITING’.

Track-Selection Based Editing saves users from having to do a lot of repetitive event selecting, allows much easier/faster Cursor/Locator editing that is focused to selected tracks instead of global.

And it could also open up new Macro/PLE programming possibilities.

Tools vs Mouse Click Editing

Quick on this one…

There is some inconsistency with tools UI,

  • The range tool needs its own Crosshair.

  • It doesn’t display info like the Object Selector does

  • It would be great if drag selecting range had measurement/length info (seconds)

Split Tool

The split/scissor tool could have more modifier functions like ‘Cut Head’/’Cut Tail’ some of which could also get tied into the Combo Tool.

PART 2 Coming: Lanes, Multi-Track Editing, Folder Group Edit, etc……..

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