getting to the next to input notes

The key to keeping voices straight is to remember that SHIFT+V creates a new voice, but once multiple voices have been created, just use V (without SHIFT) to switch from voice to voice on a staff. Colors help as does the stem direction (and subscript number) of the tiny note below the caret.

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OK. I’ve attached an image. Hope it works. (Sorry, I just couldn’t fathom the Green method; or perhaps more relevantly, I’m getting a little tired with how long it’s taking to get to grips with Dorico.)

2nd system, the green quaver rests - to my eye, this is not a good default place for them. I’d much prefer them on a level with the dotted minims. That would sort out the clashes with the ties in bars 12, 14 and 16 too.

Daniel S - I’d welcome your views on this, please!

piano888, this spacing looks ok to me generally. You can set your bracket staff distance a little higher as well.

You might simply want to swap voices. You’re putting a downstem voice quite high compared to the upstem, and swapping would likely produce a more pleasing result.

Thanks again, Dan. :slight_smile: Yes, fair point, but the reason I don’t want to swap is that because I’m doing a slightly simplified version of a piano piece, where it’s important to retain the original layout, and the original has the melody as a stem-up line. But those quaver rests look frankly ill-placed to my eye.

Bracket staff distance - yes, I agree. But I’d hoped that using Dorico would mean that I didn’t have to fiddle so much.

Incidentally, when I’d only input the first two systems, they hadn’t spread down the page. Consequently, the low G in bar 5 was overlapping with the bar-number line in the second system and it was impossible to select it. That little problem goes away of course once there’s more input.

You may already know this, but vertical distance for brackets is a one-time setting. Layout Options, Vertical Spacing, “Braced staff to braced staff.”

Indeed you don’t need to fiddle much with this, thankfully. I don’t care for Dorico’s default here, as I think it’s much too small. But I set it to my liking, clicked “Save as Default,” and haven’t needed to bother with it since. Of course there are times in a particular piece when I may want it slightly changed.

Here again, it sounds like a simple change to vertical distance may help. What is your Inter-system gap set to? Or “Minimum inter-system gap with content”? I like mine quite large: 14 for the former (generally) and 3.25 for the latter. And then at some point, Dorico will vertically justify all systems to fill the frame.

Incidentally, “it was impossible to select it” isn’t a thing. Select something near the G with the mouse, then use the arrow keys on your keyboard to get to the G. If all else fails, go into Galley View, select the G there, then switch to Page View and it’ll remain selected.

Or use alt-shift-click until the right thing is selected! I use it all the time now that I know it exists!

Excellent! Until I’m a bit more familiar with how the defaults look in practice, I’ll leave them where they are - but now I know how. Thank you!

And thanks for the help with reaching inaccessible notes. All good stuff. :slight_smile:

For the quaver rests, there’s an option on the Rests page of Notation Options, “Position of rests against notes in an opposing voice”. Try setting it to “Consider only notes and rests at the same position”, which should allow the quaver rests to be positioned a bit closer to their default vertical positions: at the moment I think they’re trying to avoid the dotted minims at the start of the bar.

Thanks for this - all such comments are making me delve deeper into Dorico, and that’s extremely useful.

It was already set to ‘Consider only notes and rests at the same position’ though. Everything will be on factory settings, because I don’t know enough (yet) to change anything (and I’m reluctant to do so until I know what I’m doing).

I know I can fix it, but of course that’s on a rest by rest basis.

Don’t overlook the option to create a (temporary) copy of your file in order to try something off the wall to see what it does and whether it helps. Sometimes I can find a solution more quickly that way–by experimenting-- than by posting a request here, as useful and responsive as this forum is.

It would be useful to see the project itself, then. There’s only so much I can surmise by looking at screenshots. If you don’t mind, zip up the project and attach it here, and I can take a look.

Here it is. Bar 8 onwards.
Thanks!
Satie Je Te Veux simplified.zip (394 KB)

I had a look at a YouTube video that appeared to show the an original or at least early engraving of this work (replete with the funny z-looking quarter/crotchet rests) and it the rest placement looks pretty close to what Dorico is doing by default. The original edition doesn’t seem to use eighths/quavers for the third beat of the bar, so the eighth/quaver rests don’t appear in the original score. I was mistaken that the option I pointed out to you in Notation Options would affect this situation; that option actually works in reverse, i.e. it won’t allow notes to appear in the same horizontal vicinity as an ongoing rest, in case it makes it unclear how many beats in the bar there actually are.