Gibson guit/MIDI interface/C6? for how long?

[curteye]

Aloha guys,
and then they came after me…
{‘.’}

DOJ vs. Gibson Guitar Company

[swamptone]

Very troubling. A sign of the times.

[thermionic]

On September 1st, 2011 at 11:59 am, letget said:

The ceo on Glenn’s show said that any person who has ever bought a Gibson guitar MIGHT have to prove what and where each wood is in their guitar with that the feds are doing going after his company. This is beyone belief!
L

My 2002 Les Paul is under the bed, I’ll use my Telecaster until the Feds go after Fender.

[Frank_Heller]

This story has been ongoing since 2009 and there’s apparently a few more facts to the story than Curteye’s link lets on.

scroll down to: Recent criticism and controversy at:

Gibson Brands

I leave it to you to click on the source links in the article to get a bigger picture of what this story is all about.

…just sayin’.

[thermionic]

So this is what rock & roll has come to…party political donations!!

[swamptone]

Strict interpretation of the Lacey Act could subject every instrument with rosewood and/or ebony to account for the origins of the wood. Failure to authenticate origin sufficient to that required by the act could result in the instrument(s) being confiscated.

There is much to study with regards to the Lacey Act and this federal action against Gibson. All of it is troubling.

[Frank_Heller]

Strict interpretation of the Lacey Act could subject every instrument with rosewood and/or ebony to account for the origins of the wood. Failure to authenticate origin sufficient to that required by the act could result in the instrument(s) being confiscated.

This is an extremely unlikely supposition. This suggests that soon, there will be thousands of government agents acting as “Guitar Police”.It will never happen.

The issue is not with “grandfathered” products already in circulation. It has to do with the importation of raw materials before they are turned into products.

This story started in 2009. Gibson was flagged for attempting to end-run U.S. importation laws by employing a third party European importer (who was not subject to Madagascar importation restrictions) to get the material into the U.S. as a European product. The latest Dept.of Fish and Wildlife action has to do with another Gibson end run using an Indian exporter as the middleman.

I wouldn’t worry about someone confiscating your guitars.

[swamptone]

@ Weasel

Don’t be too sure. Here is a tiny little snippet:

@Lacey Act

Lacey Act vs. Declaration Requirement
•
The Declaration Requirement is only a small part of the entire Lacey Act
•
Even if a shipment is exempt from the Declaration Requirement –the Lacey Act is still in force
•
Example: Bagpipes with wooden pipes
–
HTS Section 92059020 –no declaration required
–
The Lacey Act itself still applies to the wooden pipes
–
If the pipes were made from illegally harvested trees then the bagpipe shipment is in violation of the Lacey Act

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/lacey_act/downloads/LaceyActPrimer.pdf

I have it on good authority, from someone in the business who has consulted with their attorneys on the matter, that crossing a U.S. Border with a guitar could be subject to the act … and said instrument impounded. Doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, but it could happen.

[swamptone]

Simply possessing the timber product can make you a felon, regardless of whether or not you were involved in the harvesting, were the original importer, or had received any information regarding the source of the timber product. Here’s an example. Let’s say you are driving a Bentley Flying Spur with a rosewood interior. Importation of Brazilian rosewood is a felony under the Lacey Act. Do you know where the rosewood in your Spur came from? Can you prove it? In Gibson’s case, it was Indian rosewood that supposedly caused the bust; although the importation of Indian rosewood is legal, it has to be finished and prepared to certain standards in India. If raw Indian rosewood is sent to Bentley for finishing into dashboards — and make no mistake, that is how it is done — it may not break any British laws, but it breaks an American one, and you are now a convicted felon for visiting the Canadian side of Niagara Falls and coming back.

Source

Cross The Border, Lose Your Bentley; The Lacey Act Applies To Automobiles, Too

@John Thomas - Attorney

There is absolutely no grandfather provision in the Lacey Act.

I know of about a dozen Lacey act guitar confiscations, almost all for guitars coming into the US from Canada (for warranty work). All were pre- April 2010. All were eventually released (after fines were paid). But, the times they are a changing.

I’ll be speaking about CITS at an international law conference in Athens, Greece in July. If you hear of any confiscations or other difficulties, I’d appreciated you letting me know.

Source:
http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=1;t=030321

[swamptone]

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/magazine/guitar-lover’s-guide-cites-conservation-treaty

@George Gruhn

Look, this thing is a nightmare. It’s cumbersome, illogical and nearly unintelligible. It’s hard enough to figure out what permits to obtain in the U.S., but it’s almost impossible to figure out the necessary permits to get a guitar in and out of another country. CITES only establishes a ‘floor’ of restrictions. The member countries can establish any other rules as long as they’re stricter than CITES. Imagine a touring musician who plans to visit several countries with a guitar with Brazilian rosewood back and sides. It would be almost impossible to comply with CITES and do the tour.

[Frank_Heller]

Don’t be too sure.

Oh puh-leeease. Get a grip. The government isn’t going to come after yours or anyone elses guitar. This particular case is an importation issue with Gibson. They tried to end-run the restriction and got caught.

[swamptone]

@Weasel

Don’t be too sure.

Oh puh-leeease. Get a grip. The government isn’t going to come after yours or anyone elses guitar. This particular case is an importation issue with Gibson. They tried to end-run the restriction and got caught.

George Gruhn no longer exports guitars.

Willy Nelson says he will no longer travel out of the country with his main gigging guitar of many years.

By all means … don’t take any of this seriously if you don’t want to. And when “they” get a grip on your instrument you can tell them “Oh puh-leeease … give it back”. Not that it’ll ever happen. You may be right. Maybe the gubment really is a benevolent Big Brother with all our interests at heart. Maybe being taxed and regulated into oblivion really is a good thing and we’re all just to freekin’ stupid to know what’s good for us?

Get A Grip … hey! Wasn’t that the name of an Aerosmith album? I wonder if they’ll be taking any pre-war Martins on tour?

[Frank_Heller]

By all means … don’t take any of this seriously if you don’t want to. And when “they” get a grip on your instrument you can tell them “Oh puh-leeease … give it back”.

Ok…whatever you say…I’m going to slowly back away towards the door now.

[Renewal]

They wouldn’t dare to get a grip on my Jem 777 (nr. 531) Loch Ness Green cause it has already it’s Monkey Grip en when I’ll show them the Lions Claw they will run!!

[swamptone]

@Weasel

By all means … don’t take any of this seriously if you don’t want to. And when “they” get a grip on your instrument you can tell them “Oh puh-leeease … give it back”.

Ok…whatever you say…I’m going to slowly back away towards the door now.

Stick around. I’m harmless.

I think you are correct in saying the gov won’t go rounding up guitars from us. Not like they went door-to-door in New Orleans after Katrina confiscating weapons from folks that had a right to have them.

Nor do I think they’ll surround us with Deputy U.S. Marshalls wearing camo and bearing automatic weapons; nor shoot our children in the back and kill them like they did 14 year old Sammy Weaver on his family land in the wilds of Idaho.

Nor do I think they’ll invade our homes in the night and do this:

@Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

Jose Guerena, a US Marine who served two tours in Bush’s Iraq War was murdered in his own home in front of his wife and two small children by a crazed SWAT team, again in the wrong place, who shot him 60 times. When his wife told him that there were men sneaking around the house, he picked up his rifle and walked to the kitchen to see what was going on and was gunned down. The hysterical SWAT team fired 71 shots at him without cause. Brave, tough, macho cops out defending the public and murdering war heroes.

But I find it highly plausible that a frustrated TSA agent or overzealous Fish & Wildlife “environmentalist” Agent, having a bad day, might decide to give somebody a hard time at a border checkpoint and use this Lacey Act to harass them and make them pay a fine on their rosewood guitar. That’s what some lawyers are warning there is a potential of. Do you object to discussing this potential? Do you have something other than your opinion (nothing wrong with opinions, but they won’t hold up in court) to reassure folks they have nothing to worry about?

[curteye]

Well here on Maui we have Steve Grimes guitars made from graphite.

Guess those will be safe; till a new law is written.
{‘-’}

[swamptone]

John Suhr explains why he would have to pay a $190 fee to put one abalone dot on a neck.

@John Suhr

You need to have a been registered with Fish and Game $100
Anytime you make any shipment that could be confused with endangered species like certain shells you need to file a permit $90 stating where it came from and what it is. This permit is supposed to be filed any time the consumer cross a border as well. So yes if I do an Abalone logo I still need to tack on at least $90 just to cover the filing fee. It is really getting ridiculous. Most builders are looking for alternate materials now. IF you dont file the permit it is a $250 fine or much much worse if they smell you are trying to pull the wool over their eyes. You can even have a 400 year old ivory comb that was made in to an ivory nut last year and they will confiscate that guitar for sure.

John Suhr www.suhrguitars.com