Gliss doesn't play correctly with swing 8ths on

Here’s an unusual one. Gliss playback with the Delayed Start property doesn’t work correctly if you have swing 8ths turned on. In the example below, the first one plays light clicks where the gliss notes should be. The second one sounds as you would expect.

Swing (642 KB)

Can anybody else repeat this behavior?

Please don’t bump threads. I’ll look at this when I get a chance and come back to you.

I was able to repeat this behavior with HALion Sonic SE as the VST but with NotePerformer the behavior did not occur.

[attachment=0]Swing gliss - I’ll Be[/attachment]

[attachment=1]Swing gliss - I’ll Be[/attachment]
Swing gliss - I’ll Be (999 KB)
Swing gliss - I’ll Be (772 KB)

Thanks. I suspect NP is interpreting glisses itself. And NP might have its own interpretation of swing as well. This problem only seems to happen when swing is set.

I’ve taken a look at this now, and I don’t think Dorico’s doing anything wrong here. The notes end up sufficiently short at this particular tempo that the baritone sax sound doesn’t have time to speak, but if you switch to a sound like piano you’ll hear the gliss. is played perfectly acceptably.

I will try a slightly slower tempo to see if that holds true. But let me point out that when I hold the tempo constant, it plays fine with straight 8ths but NONE of the gliss notes are audible with swing 8ths active. If the odd notes sounded but the even notes did not sound, then your explanation would make a lot more sense to me.

I guess there should be no swing applied to the gliss notes. So perhaps your explanation implies that with swing turned on, the “delay” is a little longer than with straight 8ths, and that is just enough to make the Bari not sound.

The notes that Dorico is playing as part of the gliss. are not swung. The rhythmic space into which the glissando notes are inserted, on the other hand, is affected by swing.

Yes, I can see how that might happen. However the documentation says that “Delayed start” means that the gliss starts halfway through the first note. In this case, the first note is 2-1/2 beats. There is no musical reason to apply swing timing to a note of that length as it (or half of it) doesn’t fall on an off-beat.

Now that I understand this behavior, I can make adjustments to make it work, but I would think it would be more ideal in this case to not consider swing at all, if such a thing is possible without great heartburn. If one wanted to be really pedantic, one might say that the most music interpretation would be to use swing only if the starting note – as adjusted for delay – ends on an off-beat. I’m not trying to be that pedantic. I just wanted to understand why it didn’t seem to be working as it is described.

Thanks for your thoughts on this one.

I am certain there is something wrong here, and it is not just a question of timing. Yes, timing is why the bari notes aren’t playing in some cases, but that is because Dorico is evidently calculating the time wrong sometimes. Please consider the two examples below. Example one has the note starting the gliss as a half note beginning at the bar line. The gliss is “delayed start”, so the time available for playing the gliss notes is half of the note, or the space of a quarter note. That plays perfectly at my song’s tempo.

Now look at example 2. Everything is exactly the same except that the note beginning the gliss jumps 1. In other words, the beginning note is LONGER than in example 1. It is something longer than 2 beats. We do have swing set, so it is not a full 2-1/2 beats, but it is LONGER than example 1. And of course, half of a longer note gives us more than a full beat to play those gliss notes. But the gliss fails to play in this case.

To try to work around this, I tried several settings for delay. None of them sound nearly as good as example 1, but I got something to sound more or less like real notes by setting the delay down to 5/8 of a beat. Anything larger and it is just faint clicks. Again, I’d expect a delay of 1 to produce a result very much like Example 1, but that doesn’t work.

I thought maybe the fact the note was starting before the beat triggered the problem. Consider example 3. This is exactly like the other 2 examples with delayed start on but no delay specified. This time the note beginning the gliss starts on the beat but is 2-1/2 beats, like example 2. This time the notes definitely sound – but now they are compressed into a half beat, when they should be in the space of something slightly over a full beat.
Ex 3 plays but compressed.png
Ex 2 fails.png
Ex 1 works.png

We’ve been looking into this further and we now have a good handle on what’s going on. The issue is that if the note at the start of the glissando happens to be affected by swing, then the individual notes that make up the glissando likewise end up affected by swing incorrectly. It’s not their position that’s wrong, but rather their duration, which is too short. We aim to include a fix for this in a future version.

Thank you. I know it is a minor item, but I’m glad it will be cleared up.