Grouping in asymmetric metre

[Marcabru]

I’ve looked at a few threads on this, mostly focused on beaming. My query is slightly different. Transcribing a bit of Vaughan Williams: he’s got this

…and I have got this

Now, I thought there was a simple way of getting the 5/4 measures to group 2+3 so that I get a minim rather than tied crotchets, but what I tried didn’t work. Is there a way other than forced duration?

[charles_piano]

@Marcabru

I thought there was a simple way of getting the 5/4 measures to group 2+3 so that I get a minim rather than tied crotchets, but what I tried didn’t work. Is there a way other than forced duration?

Yes, you can enter your time signature as [2+3]/4

Result:

[Marcabru]

Cool. Thank you.

[Marcabru]

Oh, wait a minute… I can do that on each individual instance, but I don’t seem to be able to alter the uber-signature in the Metre panel, or create the alternative there.

[charles_piano]

I don’t think you can change the default 5/4 Time Signature (there are 2 notation options for 5/4, but they don’t match your wish). But you can easily Alt+Click your custom 5/4:

I’m not sure how the 5/4 in the Used in this flow section behaves when you have 2 types of 5/4 TS in the same flow. It seems to be like the last entered one.

So once you have alt-clicked one correct (2+3) 5/4, it looks like you can use the panel.

[Spielmann_M]

Is this what you mean?
(I can’t quite get it to work with brackets and without the “plus” sign; perhaps someone else can explain it)

[charles_piano]

We can’t really see from the screenshot if they’re Alternating or Interchangeable time signatures. If it’s Alternating, I think the + is the only available separator — and anyway, Dorico doesn’t provide parentheses for TS AFAIK, so it would require MusGlyphs or something like this.

[Marcabru]

On the time sig in the original, it is hand-wavy – might be 4/4; might be 5/4; let’s see… the poem is quite disciplined, but not uniform. (By the way, it is Along the Field, available on imslp.)

I assumed that Dorico wouldn’t be very keen on that kind of wait-and-see, so just entered it in the orthodox manner. Presumably, Charles, what you’ve done would strictly alternate between the two?

[charles_piano]

@Marcabru

Presumably, Charles, what you’ve done would strictly alternate between the two?

Yes, these are Alternating time signatures.

@Marcabru

I assumed that Dorico wouldn’t be very keen on that kind of wait-and-see

This is actually the purpose of interchangeable Time signatures.

It indicates 2 times signatures, but doesn’t mean any regular pattern. It means each bar can be either one or the other. You just enter the time signature where it changes, and it will be automatically hidden. So it’s what you’re after if you want to copy exactly the score!

[charles_piano]

And there is a big choice for the separator:

But as I was saying, no parentheses (I mean, surrounding both TS, like in your example), so if you want them you must create your time Signature as a text.

And the popover syntax:

(You can anyway change the separator aspect in Engraving Options or in the properties Panel)

Types of time signatures - Dorico Pro - 6.1

[Marcabru]

That’s excellent, Charles. Thank you.