I installed the Halion 7 upgrade. I had Halion 6 on my computer. When the Halion 7 icon appeared on the screen - the Halion 6 icon disappeared. It is also not in the Steinberg Folder.
I tried to install it again - the installer did not allow it.
Only after uninstalling Halion 7 could I install Halion 6 again. And again - when I installed Halion 7 - Halion 6 disappeared.
Please - does anyone know what to do with this? I need both.
HALion 7 replaces HALion 6. There are significant differences.
HALion 6 used the old eLicenser system. HALion 7 uses the new dongle-free Steinberg Licensing system.
The content is different as well. Much of it has been reorganized into different vstsound containers with different Library names, and quite a bit of the Sonic and Sonic SE content also has updated Macro screens. The newer content gets unlocked via the newer licensing system.
So, if you wish to roll back from H7 to H6, youâll need to uninstall it allâŚcontent included, and reinstall H6, plus all of the older content libraries.
Youâll need eLicenser installed, and the dongle plugged in. If you put it on a soft eLicenser instead of a dongle in the past, please get a dongle and move it before itâs too late, as the old eLicenser servers will go offline pretty soon.
Another issue that might be of concern is that since Cubase/Nuendo 12, the mediabay database server has received a number of updates as well.
While it is âpossibleâ to establish your own manual or scripted process to isolate and âmove/renameâ some select folders and swap HALion versions, itâs not exactly simple. There might be risks of breaking the âmedia bayâ in different versions of Steinberg hosts. EtcâŚ
Iâd suggest a different approach.
First, I ask, what do you need H6 to do that H7 cannot?
If the answer is ârun in a VST2 hostââŚIâd suggest using a VST2<>VST3 bridge.
If the answer is to make content for older versions of HALion, Iâd carefully consider if the effort is worth the bother since Steinberg is not going to be supporting the old licenser versions for much longer. Content you intend to share with other users can be packed for use in the Free Sonic 7 player. Target users will not need to bother with dongles, or the older soft eLicenser versions of Sonic SE 3 (and itâs no longer possible to register new keys for those old players anyway).
Itâs been a long time since Iâve checked to see if H7 can still import/export anything that is cross compatible with something like Chicken Systems Translator. I suppose if you need to do this kind of work, it might well be helpful to maintain a working copy of HALion 5 somehow.
I wish I had better answers. There once was a time I needed to make some simple content that would work for some students using the old Sonic SE 3 player. It was far from ideal, but in my case it was a quick and simple project, so I simply built a Virtual Machine installation of Windows 10 (using a free version of VM Ware workstation), installed HALion 5 on that, and it was good enough to get me through the project.
Since then, Iâve more or less retired an older machine from regular âheavy-dutyâ use. I pull it from the closet to work with legacy software when needed.
Another option is to swap out system hard-drives. Do a fresh install of EVERYTHING on a self-contained drive. OS and all. When the need arises, just swap out the drive.
For the most part however, at this time I personally wouldnât bother putting forth too much effort to support old versions of HALion. I now pretend that HALion/Sonic 7 is âwhere it all beganâ. I suppose I might find some exception to the rule at some point, but for now, it seems like an awful lot of work for little return on the investment.
So, design for HALion/Sonic 7 and forward. Have your target users install the latest version of the Sonic player. Thatâs the course of least resistance.
At this point the main obstacle might be people still using a host that still doesnât support VST3, AU, or PT plugins. Direct these people to try any number of VST bridging options.
Personally I use the registered version of bidule, but itâs not a freebie, and it does way more than bridge plugins.
Kushview Element might be a free option thatâd work for many users.
Audio Gridder is another free option that might work for some (Sonic works in it for me, but H7 doesnât without some help).
Another free option out there is VST3shell.
Bluecat Audio offers a powerful commercial plugin chainer that should be able to get the job done.
Probably more out there.
The plugins use the same plugin ID. So they can not coexist on the same system.
I would argue this point. Only the new content needs to be installed, if you want it. Iâm still using the libraries that came with H6 as I only installed the executable.
Thank you for your quick response.
Your solutions are too complicated - for my computer skills.
So far, I havenât had any such problems - Iâve had Halion since version 4 - then, one after another, now 7.
Why is it important? - because I have old projects - with Nuendo even 5 - with Halion 5, 6.
And those opened with a small number of errors or missed (searched) files. Now itâs a nightmare.
But - I have a computer with Windows 7 - it works like lightning (unfortunately it didnât catch newer versions of Steinberg) - and I have Nuendo from version 4 to 7, I think, and Halion 6. Yesterday I plugged in the license keys - and they work beautifully.
So unfortunately Iâll have to put two computers next to each other - and manually transfer folders with audio - and match sounds from one to the other and the rest of the project.
Itâs a bit strange - because it turns out - that there is practically no reading of permanent projects by new instances of the programs. So you have to keep old versions of Nuendo and Halion - otherwise itâs a disaster.
The same goes for old Steinberg instruments. I think itâs not right - that I have to look for similar sounds from old projects - because the old instruments are not currently in the program.
Well - this is a lesson, a kind of âpunch in the jawâ - that you have to take care of these old projects somehow if you donât want to lose them. And so that you can go back to some ideas.
The same goes for Nuendo 13 - it doesnât open old files from the previous version directly. I just started such a topic for Nuendo.
This is some kind of paranoia - or my incompetence - because of course I donât consider myself a great specialist - I create music, not computer programs.
But I used to open older files in Nuendo 4, in Nuendo 5 too - and in Nuendo 7.
But I already described that in that topic.
Thanks again for your help - it expanded my knowledge - in an area I didnât know much about before.
Thanks - and I wish you a happy New Year!
to Googly_Smythe and st10ss
Thanks for your help - Iâm also sending you my longer post with explanations.
And I also wish you a Happy New Year!
Iâll try something else - to have both Halions on a new computer - maybe Iâll uninstall both and install them again.
If not - Iâll work on two computers - a bit funny - but I donât want to lose my old projects.
Itâs good that it works for you. Do you have to keep the dongle in place? Did you use Download Assistant to upgrade, or just grab base installers and to it manually?
I had the same good fortune for a smooth transition way back when HALion 7 first released. I was using Dorico 4 and Cubase 11. For me, making the full journey to the latest versions of Dorico and Cubase 14âŚthings have gone fairly smoothly. Iâve always run Steinberg Download Assistant (SDA) a few times a month, and it has done its job and gradually converted everything to the latest versions. Iâd always reboot the system after SDA had done its thing (reboot to ensure services/processes get shut down, files closed properly, stuff cleans up after itself, etc).
Over time Steinberg released vouchers to move older content to the new licensing system. Once applying these vouchers, newer versions of library archives (vstsound packages) become valid.
In my experience SDA would ârecommendâ I accept updates for HALion/Sonic/Groove Agent content. I could âopt outâ of the recommended updates, but how many users are going to do this?
It seemed obvious to me, if I wanted to be free of the dongle, Iâd let SDA do its thing. So I did.
From time to time I see cries for help in the forum where something went wrong with their updates via SDA. A common ânuclearâ trouble shooting approach it to simply clean out the content libraries, and make sure you have the latest releases. If for some reason you want to âforceâ using the older dongle based content, then grab the manual installers and do the homework to âreplaceâ the bits you need.
If you do the entire update through SDA, AND all of Steinberg libraries are registered in the new licensing system, itâs possible that SDA might offer to âupdateâ content on its own? Seems like it did in my case, but sometimes users out there miss something, or bypass using SDA, orâŚuggâŚit just went wrong for some reason.
Attempting to roll back to a version that doesnât support the newer dongle free system makes things even more complicated.
It seems like when people run into problems making sure the database server and all of the content/libraries are up to date gets it working again.
Since HALion/Sonic 7 was released, most if not all of the HALion libraries have been updated to work with the new Steinberg Licensing system. The older vstsound archives still need an eLicenser key (on dongle or soft keyed).
It can be confusing to keep up with what is what. Launching the Steinberg Download Assistant app might be prone to different issues when it attempts to auto-update things like the database server that is shared among common Steinberg Apps.
This is why I say âswapping aroundâ between major HALion versions on a single OS setup is âpossibleâ, but itâs a pain.
Your old projects should be fine with HALion/Sonic 7, provided you were using the VST3 versions of HALion/Sonic/Sonic SE.
What kind of files are missing? There might be a way to fix this if the forum knows more about the situation.
With factory content, sometimes itâs just a matter of trashing the right file so the media bay db gets rebuilt. Once thatâs done HALion finds the right stuff again, and makes sure itâs properly âregistered/unlockedâ.
If you have older user programs, multi-programs, layers, and presets lurking, we can help you find them and get it registered.
If you had old HALion 3 content installed at some point but canât find it now, there are ways to get it back and reinstall it for use in H7.
Absolutely! Iâve learned this lesson as well.
Clone the entire setup before taking on major software upgrades. There are ways to make it a fairly painless process. Youâll do some studying to come up with a system that is best for you, but in the long term, itâll be worth it.
Personally, Iâve come up with a system where I can just pull and replace the entire system drive (along with project data drives if necessary) before accepting major software upgrades. Across the boardâŚnot just Steinberg stuff, but the entire OS, all of the plugins and other relative software remains exactly where I left it when pulling the drive.
As a matter of course, I try to do it once per year âjust becauseâ, but sometimes I do it more often if I know Iâm about to dive into a bunch of cutting edge âmessâ that might not work out for me.
It takes a little planning to sysprep a system drive before pulling it and replacing with a new one, but I think itâs worth it.
The base steps before pulling a system drive (or doing a raw system partition backup to other media) are.
Release all of your software keys (iLok, Steinberg, Waves, Adobe, etc), so you can reactivate them on your new OS installation.
Run a sysprep for your OS (sets aside some security options, and stashes base reference system drivers in case you need to plug this drive into a âdifferentâ machine someday than the one it was made with).
Lable it wellâŚput readme files and such on the root of the drive to remind you what itâll take to get it back up exactly like you last left it (reactivate/register apps, connect specific data drives, devices, dongles, interfaces, bios settings, etc).
This way you hopefully have a âplug and playâ method to revisit projects EXACTLY where you left off when you last worked with it. Same OS, same apps, same plugins, same device drivers, etcâŚ
Quite often you can mount such backups (not actually boot from them) and just pull projects and such from them thatâll work with newer versions of your apps, but should you run into problems, you can hopefully plug the old drive in, reboot, and step in the time capsuleâŚexactly where you left off 
Itâs also a good idea to pack projects from time to time. By this, I mean export all the stems, tracks, etc, into general formats that can be imported into any system/daw out there. Sooner or later, something in your projects are going to go defunct, no longer be supported, or might even fall off into a black hole (I.E. requires a dongle that is no longer easy to find or get working with your hardware, and no viable âcrackâ ever comes about to get it working again). It takes time, and wonât be a perfect archive of where you left off, but at least youâve preserved the nuts and bolts of your work and can preserve the otherwise âunreproducibleâ aspects of your project.
Iâm using HALion 7, so No Dongle. And I avoid the Download âAssistantâ like the plague.
Apart from new libraries that come with each new upgrade, I havenât replaced any libraries since HALion 4.
And I can still open projects from 10 years ago without any HALion issues.
Very interesting. I have no issues opening old projects with H7âŚ
ButâŚ
I wonder what all the vouchers were about? I was not able to get rid of my dongle until Iâd redeemed the vouchers. The process âtouchedâ all of the keys on my dongle(s). Over time everything changed quite a bit for meâŚ
I look in the Library Manger, and things are pretty different now.
Where there used to be libraries like:
Basic SE
Artist SE
Hybrid SE
etcâŚ
There is now a single library called âSonic Selectionâ that includes all the same programs/layers/etc. as before. Itâs organized differently now.
Also, the Macro editors of the Sonic Selection content has been upgraded. It looks different, and no longer says, âSonic SE2â.
H6 with H6 librariesâŚ(Screen Shots I made ages ago for various threads here in the forum)
H7 with H7 librariesâŚ
Library Manager organizes things differently. Where the vstsound archives seem the same (names/locations), the version numbers and file sizes are different.
Mine has reorganized all those older HSSE libraries that come with Cubase/Dorico/Etc. under âSonic Selectionâ (Stroked with a red box below). All the presets are still there, but I no longer get separate categories for âBasic, Artist Pro, Hybridâ etc.
If you load one of the GM instruments which Macro editor does it have? The retro looking HSSE2 tagged one with 3d knobs like this,
or the newer Sonic Selection variant that looks like this?
Over time, as Iâve applied all the app and library vouchers to get off the dongle, and moved from Cubase 11/Dorico 4 and before, to the latest Dorico 5 and Cubase 14 releases, the base content has changed quite a bit (newer versions, different organization, updated macros).
I donât think HALion 6 would work in my case unless I also wiped all the HALion content clean, and reinstalled it from scratch with the older content. I could be wrong, but if I were to try it and end up with âissuesâ rolling back, itâs the first thing Iâd try. It makes sense, as there is a point among all the content versions that support was added for the new Steinberg Licensing system.
As far as I know there was ONE release of the HSSE (3.5.10) player that could play content from both the old eLicenser libraries, and the newer Steinberg Licensing system. I think that version of HSSE itself could also be unlocked by either method. It shipped with a late version of Dorico 4 that had beat Cubase/Nuendo to the punch on a dongle free option.
For a short while I used HSSE 3.5.10 with VST2 only hosts. Iâm not sure if that works anymore now that db servers and content has âevolvedâ so much since those days. I also remember that I needed to get VST3 version of HSSE 3.5.10 out of the plugin scan if Sonic 7 was also there (keep one or the other, but not both in the VST3 plugin directory), as some older hosts would crash since they both shared the same plugin ID.
I suppose itâs possible a service release might have come out for full HALion 6 and Sonic 3 to support the new âSteinberg Licensedâ content? If so, I missed out on that one (by skipping all the way to Version 7 as soon as it was on the market).
So, attempting to maintain more than one version of HALion on the same system might also require swapping out entire âcontent setsâ along with the base app, and plugin files; as, there have definitely been quite a number of updates to the content since HALion 7 and Sonic 7 rolled out.
Then, thereâs the numerous db server updates (the content db is shared by all Steinberg apps?) that have occurred from Cubase 11 to present.
They seem to have the new GUI. These days I mostly use it just for HALiotron, and imported mellotron samples.
It used to be my go to when I was into âsynthâ music, rather than the âretro rockâ that I do now.
Ah, at some point portions of your content has somehow been updated it would seem. Interesting that you still see those old Categories instead of âSonic Selectionâ.
It may be because I installed the new stuff? Any new content (I hate that word!) I would have downloaded. To be honest, itâs so rare that I update my HALion libraries that I canât remember. I did a complete re-install a couple of months ago and all I did was to select a random .vstsound file, double-clicked it and let the Library Manager do the rest.
Could be. Also, you stated you avoid SDA like the plague. If you havenât been running that, your db server is probably still an older version. If itâs working without issue, I wouldnât worry about it, but it makes sense that this might be why weâre seeing different stuff.
The first thing that SDA app does is check for the latest eLicencer stuff and update that if needed, then I think it checks some âshared servicesâ among Steinberg apps. Among those would be stuff like, the new Licensing system, database servers, etc. Much of that stuff seems to be âautomaticâ upon launching SDA.
From there it might also check your installed apps and content sets, and offer options to grab and install updates for those. Typically it adds a fresh tab at the top of the list showing known updates that are available to you. Over the past few years Iâve accepted numerous âcontent updatesâ from that tab.
Then thereâs the numerous sets of content that ship with given hosts. Dorico Pro comes with Sketch, HSO, and a Choir library, but doesnât come with all the synthy libraries youâd get with Cubase Pro (Flux type stuff?). Cubase Pro comes with a ton of synths and âloop packsâ, but you donât get HSO or the Choirs.
The little brother versions sometimes donât get as many content libraries as the Pro versions, and so on.
I think these days, with the latest versions of things, âSonic Selectionâ is pretty universal. It ships with most if not all of the hosts. It also ships with HALion 7 or Sonic Collections (even for users that donât own a Steinberg host).
From there you manage individual libraries that donât ship with a host or HALion package independently.
In theory, if we keep everything updated from SDA, older hosts should keep working with the newest plugins. I.E. I should be able to start Cubase 10 or 11, and itâd work fine with HALion 7, and where it once used Sonic SE, itâs just pull up Sonic 7 instead. It should purr right along. The one exception being, if the user had accidentally used the VST2 version of Sonic SE in their older project. In that case, Iâd first try installing the HSSE 3.5.1 player (from here), and moving the VST3 plugin part of it out of the system VST3 directory. That âmightâ be enough to get things exported and pulled back into new VST3 instances of Sonic 7.
If the user accidentally used VST2 versions of full Sonic/HALion in an old Cubase ProjectâŚumm, yeah, roll back long enough to fix it (export a multi-program to bring into a new updated instance of HALion later), or âmanuallyâ attach the track to a new instance of Sonic/HALion 7 and try to reload or rebuild your sound.
As for the db server. Thatâs something that Steinberg apps can share. Cubase has the media bay thing. HALion and Groove Agent have internal media-bay browsers. Dorico doesnât expose a host media-bay, but I still believe it uses it âunder the hoodâ to some degree that is not obvious/exposed to the end user.
Again, in theory, maintaining the latest version of such services should still allow keeping and using older versions of Steinberg âhostsâ on the same system. At least for Windows. Macâs may well be a bit different since theyâve been transitioning away from intel Silicon and on to their own ARM variants. I donât have a Mac, but I understand it can get a little more complicated than Windows when it comes to trying to roll back to older stuff.
In shortâŚmy understanding for âWindows Usersâ isâŚkeep HALion, Sonic, and Groove Agent as up to date as possible. I think the same would apply for stuff like fully registered independent keys for stuff like Retrologue or Padshop. From there you should be able to run pretty much any Steinberg Host you like thatâs 64bit, and supports VST3 without issue. That goes back as far as version 7 I think?
If you go back older than that, youâre getting into 32bit land, and even some plugin systems that predate VST. You can probably run those on the same system too, but youâll need to maintain older plugin sets in directories of their own.
As for âneedingâ to roll back HALion. If I found a need to maintain a working version of HALion off the dongle, Iâd probably opt for HALion 5 on a virtual machine or something. Why? There were a few possibilities when exporting/importing factory presets that if you held your mouth just right, it was possible to preserve factory macros in locked factory layers. There might have also been some export/import possibilities that could serve as a mediary platform for something like Chicken Systems to âportâ some things from one format to another.
I.E. H5 could import and export an older HALion format that was not encrypted. So CS Translator could import/export/build stuff in this format. Once you got it back into H5, you could pack a proper vstsound file and push it up the ladder until you got it fine tuned for the latest and greatest versions of HALion. H5 was also excellent when it came to importing stuff like AKAI or Roland format sample disks (and maybe some others).
H6 and H7 might still support this stuff, but I havenât checked it out in years. Iâd have to research, try it, and see. I do know that when I moved to H6, some aspects of presets/layers got a bit more secure though. It was impossible to fiddle with an HSSE Program (add a custom layer or something) and then export it for HSSE without losing the factory macro. Iâd be forced to build a fresh macro of my own, or share it with no macro at all. In contrast, with H5, if I was careful, I could add layers, keyswitches and such, and as long as I followed some rules before exporting the layer, I could import it into HSSE 2, save as a new program, and itâd write a program that I could later load into Sonic SE, and not lose the factory macro.
Hereâs one I built with H5 way back when Dorico was a version 1 baby. Dorico could not channel bounce in those days, so I just added a key-switch layer for custom made pizzicato and tremolo layers to one of the base locked Violin layers. (I wanted some other options that didnât use HSO that I could use on laptop with small drive, and also be shared with my students).
For the life of me, I canât make this happen since HALion 6 without losing that factory macro! I also find it interesting that even though I built this preset years ago, when H6 was brand newâŚitâs somehow pointing to the updated âSonic Selectionâ macro (It used to have the Sonice SE2 Basic macro)! I suppose itâs because the paths/names for everything is still exactly the same to this day (good legacy support!).
Whether or not you resolve anyoneâs problems in this thread, Brian, the time and attention you devoted to the discussion deserves credit. If and when I have an issue, I hope it reaches you. Cheers and all the best for 2025.
Cheers!
Just to summarize this from our perspective.
All your old projects should ideally âjust workâ with the up to date software.
It this is not the case, we need to look what exactly has gone wrong or if you can improve your project maintenance practices.
If I understood you (@LESZEK )correctly, the playback is NOT identical AND you get error messages about missing files, right?
Missing audio files are less important to me - because it could be my fault. Maybe I took the notes incorrectly, didnât set the folders precisely.
Whatâs worse is that there are missing sounds, e.g. from the old Halion, Steinbergâs VST instruments, plugin settings - which arenât there because they were VST2.
This isnât my fault, because I used the current ones back then. But the problem is that I donât remember these sounds to match others.
Of course - as I wrote - luckily I have an old computer with older versions of Nuendo, Halion, etc.
By comparing, Iâm slowly starting to find missing sounds and settings. Itâs tedious and annoying work - although maybe Iâll find some better sounds this way, some new ideas will appear!
Thereâs a saying - âeverything is so bad that it doesnât turn out wellâ.
I donât know how it is with others - maybe they donât reach for old projects. ButâŚ
. There was a discussion here - what would artificial intelligence be useful for in Nuendo or Cubase? Well, now I know - to take care of such matters - for example, adapting old projects to new conditions. I donât need AI to create music, because thatâs a slippery subject - but looking for help in organizing and adapting a project to the software and its requirements - thatâs a clear matter.
Thanks for making this clear. I have to agree, that transitioning projects from VST2 to vst3 is a pain and could be more elegant (even though vst2 has been declared obolete since years). It would really be nice to have AI take care of such grunt work!
Using an old computer in parallel, is also the best practice I would advise. So there really is nothing to improve your situation on that side.
The only thing I could add, is the advice to bounce wave files regularly. This way, I preserve at least a more or less intact playback, for recreation with current technology.
Thanks for sticking with us, I am sure the effort will pay off in the long run.
