Hauptstimme/Nebenstimme below staff

I have created an Hauptstimme/Nebenstimme playing technique, alongside an invisible body line and a hook end cap. All looks good:


When I flip this to be below the staff or when it gets automatically positioned below during condensing, I would like the line to be vertically aligned with the baseline and the hook to be flipped up, as Gould shown on page 496.

Is there a way to bake all of this inside of the Playing Technique definition & configuration or should I create a separate PT for each instance? This would be unfortunate because it would require duplicate PT, one for the condensed score and one for the part layout.
Or would a line behave better in this case?
I’m open to suggestions!
Thanks

I think it’ll be a case of having one PT for the beginning and another PT for the end, with different glyphs for Above and Below for the second of these PTs. Then you can group together with an invisible continuation line. You’ll need to pull in a flipped end hook from a different font, though, or construct one and import, as Bravura doesn’t contain one that points upwards.

Using a Line wouldn’t help you, because though the (end) hooks themselves are rotatable, they’re just the vertical bit - you need a little horizontal bit as well, which isn’t possible.

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I will need to check with the composer, then, on how much he wants these symbols to be there. I’m not too familiar with this notation and whether it should be on each staff and/or shown in parts, but the point is that when one starts the condensing process, every edit will likely cause issues.
More food for thought…
I can certainly create the flipped hook in Illustrator, just I need to be sure this is what the composer wants.

I don’t remember ever seeing Hauptstimme below the staff in published scores. I’m curious to see an example.

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This is the mentioned page in Gould.
The left example is what I would expect in a part layout or in a non-condensed staff. The right example is what I would expect in a condensed stave.

Problem is: during note input I will in any case get the left example, but in condensing I will not get the right one, rather the same H-----\ just below staff.
Also , when more instruments are involved in a H or N section, does it make sense for each instrument to have it or should the score only have one above the top instrument and the conductor will know what to do?

Ooh! Interesting question. Let me go see if I can find such a case in a Schoenberg score… :hourglass_flowing_sand:

I’m looking at Schoenberg’s Variations for Orchestra Op. 31. (Universal Edition UE 12196) in mm. 10–11 he has flute 1, harp, and violin 1 all in unison, and each part has the Hauptstimme marking. There are many, many more such instances.

(There are other instances in which he has multiple H and N lines, each of which obviously has to be marked, such as mm. 70–72, below:)

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Thank you @judddanby!
Is there perhaps a case when the condensed stave has rest in the upstem voice and music in downstem voice and, at the same time an H/N line?

I’ll look… :hourglass_flowing_sand:

@Michele_Galvagno1 , a scan of Schoenberg Opp. 16, 31, 36, and 42 reveal that either an H or N line is a2/a3/tutti/tutte, or it is given only to the upper of the two players on a condensed staff. (I guess he took the hierarchy seriously.)

Douglas Jarman’s critical edition of Berg’s Violin Concerto (in the Universal Edition Sämtliche Werke series), UE 18155b, has the following editorial note:


There is one (and, as far as I could find while scanning, only one) case that might bear on yours:

So the condensation is either shared-stem, unison, or the second part’s H line has the indications above/mid-staff (!).

Tantalizing that he discusses Berg using the “underscore-H” but doesn’t actually notate it that way…

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Wow! This is really helpful! Thank you!

So, for condensed staves, I should be able to go to Engrave Mode, select the N/H PT in that instrument and flip it above in Local scope. That should do it!
Can’t wait to get there!

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