Help me set up LFE channel

hi guys,

I have trouble setting up a proper LFE channel:

my 5.1 LFE routing:

LFE mono channel 1 (2,3,4,5 etc)
->
LFE BUS (5.1) with “anymix”: all 5.0 channels muted (by setting “Volume” and “LFE Volume” to -inf), LFE channel set to 0db
->
EXPORT 5.1 BUS

problem: when exporting, LFE signal is on the center AND on the LFE track. it’s supposed to be only on the LFE track.
when playing the session the sound comes only from LFE, as intended.

how is it supposed to be setup? I only want to be able to have a LFE BUS, to which I can send couple tracks, so they only play on the 0.1 channel, also when exporting.

also, anymix is quite a complicated workaround in itself. is there an easier solution?

thanks :slight_smile:

Just create a mono LFE bus, no need for a 5.1 with any mix.
Also do insert a LPF so that you don’t pass higher frequency content to the LFE. What frequency to choose is debated, I often choose 80Hz with a 12db slope some want it to go higher, I do suggest to avoid to much content over 110 Hz though.

allright, now what? how do I route it to LFE?

the LFE bus is going into several other buses (different mixdowns, Stem bus, etc).

the “mono LFE bus” you suggested is playing into center now…



edit: allright, by creating a mono bus for LFE, using mixconvert V6 on it, and activating “solo output LFE channel” it only plays on LFE. but that cant be the proper way? how am I supposed to remember that?

Stop! You must learn how the routing setup works first.
It says in the manual so a bit of RTFM seems to be in your future.
Basically you add sub paths to any multichannel destination you want to route the LFE to.

allright, thanks ErikG, glad to hear there IS a proper way. will dive into TFM :slight_smile:

it seems to be impossible to just create a LFE sub bus.
I can “create a sub bus for every single channel” of every group track I have, delete 5/6, then I can route directly to LFE. As if it is uncommon to do so.

pretty weird. why that workaround?
with the standard panner I can send a signal to all of the 5.0 channels, why not to 0.1 (LFE) ?

I think you are missing some basic knowledge here.
Specific sounds that need to go into the LFE: Mono track => Routed to the LFE output/channel. (No panner involved)
Signal derived from “a” track => Open up the level of the LFE channel in the Nuendo surround panner (bottom right)

Fredo

well this works, but only by creating the sub bus for all 6 channels of a group track, and I just wonder why it feels like a workaround. (there are many sub bus options, but no “add LFE sub bus”. as I said, I can add all 6 mono channel to a 5.1 bus, THEN I can adress LFE)

this was my problem to begin with. without the sub bus method, the surround panner let me send to LFE, but it keeps sending to center (or whereever the panner is set) as well.

I dont understand why I can adress any 5.0 channel ON ITS OWN by panning to it, but not the LFE.

I mean, it would be great if I’m just missing something, and in fact its way easier :slight_smile:

I could be wrong here, but I think Fredo’s point is that you’ll need a multichannel output or group regardless and you can route straight to that LFE channel from a mono track.

And then as for the panner my impression is that the purpose of it is for it to derive signal to the LFE from the full range channels (L,C,R,LS,RS). If you wanted a sound to go solely to the LFE then you’d use the previous method (mono track) instead.

Perhaps someone should post a video or a few screenshots to explain.

Extremely confused.

First things first.
Describe what kind of setup you have (stereo/ 5.1/ect …) which speakers you have for which channels, how they are wired and what kind of job (music/Audio post) you are trying to do.

Fredo

yes thats easy, just adress an output. but for groups its different

allright! first, thanks for putting up with it :slight_smile:

I’m doing sounddesign / mixing for film. 5 neumann kh120 as LCR and LsRs, neumann kh750 as 0.1. All is routed in RME totalmix.

I got my 5.1 template, with all the dialoge / atmo / location sound / music / FX buses.
those buses go into stem buses, and those stem buses feed a stereo mixdown bus and a 5.1 mixdown bus.

there is a LFE bus, that goes into the MUSIC FX bus, and that also goes into the stem bus and from there to the mixdown buses.

when I export, I can export stems, or stereo, or 5.1, or all of it.


so the weird thing was, that my template worked with the anymix pro on the LFE bus. I could play an LFE track solo, and could hear and see in total mix that only the 0.1 channel was getting a signal. but when I exported, the signal is also on the center track.

now with the sub mix method it works, but I still wonder if this is the ideal way.
if thats how you all do it (either just routung LFE directly to the LFE output, without any stem/mixdown buses, or creating all the subbuses for 5.1 groups in order to just adress the LFE), then I get it. It just seems so complicated, compared to the task “send a signal to the right channel”, which is just done by sliding the panner to the right.

It’s not complicated to add mono child buses to either groups or outputs. However I can understand the question of why users have to add all mono child buses to get access to the LFE. That is a bit “wonky” but you’ll get used to it. And yes it’s how it’s done. Just add mono child buses to all multichannel paths that you want to send individual LFE singnals to.

“Templates”…

I can’t see any valid reason to route LFE content through groups. It just doesn’t make sense for me.
In my experience, there are only 3 ways for sending content to the LFE channel.

  1. A specific mono LFE track which contains subharmonic audio files to be added to certain scenes.
  2. Deriving low-end content from the LRC/LsRs channels through the panner. (Which is a bad idea in my opinion.)
  3. A “Subharminic” FX track (by use of a plugin) feeded by an FX send from whatever track you fancy.

Any music track that is upmixed with a plugin already adds low-end audio to the LFE, which basically is the same as #3.

Or did I misunderstand something?
What is it that you want to do that isn’t included in above workflows?

Best regards
Fredo

thanks for confirming!

exactly, point 1. and 3. I also do not like point 2.

sometimes I want to automate volume on my music/fx bus, sometimes I need to export stems.
In both cases, the LFE is routed through groups.

Also, I work a lot for experimental / art / animation film, and it happens quite often that an artist / director shows up with some new speaker setup or placement in a uncommon room or likewise. for those cases it is important for me to have those possibilities, and total control of my routing.

thanks alot, I understand it now!