Then perhaps it’s not fixed. You’re on a Mac, right? Let me check it and I’ll get back to you.
The CC121 does not use the MIDI Remote mechanism.
Certainly. Knobs are sending absolute (0-127) values, while the jog wheel has a special property (sends a 1-then-0 message while turning), but I don’t want to go into special technical details here. Let’s leave it to the part that it has to do with some internal mechanism of the MR API. I’ll test it on a Mac here (though I thought I’ve already done this) and get back to you, and to Steinberg if the issue still persists. Thank you for bringing it up!
OK, just checked it on a Mac. The issue I reported is still there unfortunately, though fixed on Windows. The good news is that I can actually create a workaround for this one, I’ll just need some time. Again, thank you.
Hi @AlanP . Sorry I have missed this thread so far. I can comment on some MIDI2.0 specific aspects.
At first you need to be aware, that MIDI2.0 consists of many specifications. Supporting MIDI2.0 doesn’t mean, that you need to support everything that has been specified.
MIDI-CI is based on System Exclusive Messages, therefore it can be implemented in Devices that do not support UMP-MIDI2.0 messages (like the Keystage). MIDI-CI can therefore be used in current versions of Windows.
KORG Keystage implements MIDI-CI property exchange using manufacturer specific resources. These resources are neither specified by MIDI Association nor by AMEI. Currently there is a group of companies collaborating to discuss and define specifications allowing to remote control a DAW. Steinberg is participating in this working group. This will take some more time.
KORG Keystage acts as an “Initiator” and expects the DAW to act as a “Responder”. This means that Keystage asks for properties and it expects the DAW to provide these properties. For the time being, this is not supported by Cubase / Nuendo.
The MIDI-CI Property Exchange that is currently present in Cubase / Nuendo assumes, that the DAW is the “Initiator” asking connected MIDI Devices for their properties (means acting like “Responder”). This way the DAW is able to detect program names and channel names and is able to store the current state of the connected MIDI Device, given that it supports those resources. These resources have been officially specified by MIDI Association and AMEI. For the time being, I’m not aware of any available Hardware supporting these resources / properties.
Not related to KORG Keystage (as it doesn’t support it) is our support of UMP-MIDI2.0 messages. Since Cubase 13 and Nuendo 13 we have support for many of those new message types for increased value resolution: up to 16 / 32 bit of resolution instead of 7 / 14 bit. This functionality requires support in the operating system, therefore it is only available on macOS. But we’re already collaborating with Microsoft to support UMP-MIDI2.0 on Windows as well. There are working prototypes, but currently it’s not possible to say, when it will be available for customers. See: https://youtu.be/1AZmAvaeBjM?si=GkiL34L44_86V60I&t=236
Hope that helps understanding the current situation regarding MIDI2.0, KORG Keystage, MIDI-CI, Cubase and Nuendo.
Indeed. The thing is that (and even its name suggests this) the Keystage was not designed targeting primarily DAWs. If for example we inspect the script provided, there’re just pretty basic transport controls involved, the knobs are left free for the MIDI 2.0 implementation. And this is actually the reason I set it to its “Native” mode, in order to get a better DAW integration, thanks to the MR API
Hi @AlanP, please try the new version uploaded which includes a fix (the file 1.1.7, at the bottom of the first post of the wiki). My comments on this new version are here:
m.c, thank you so much for the patch! FQC page now allows the Value know to work as the AI Knob on Mac, and the extra mapping you made for the TapTempo button to suit my workflow is ideal. If only we could convince Korg to stop the tempo light blinking…
@JRoeper , thank you also for the excellent explanation of the complexities and of where we are at with MIDI-CI 2.0 Property Exchange. That is super useful to know and we wish you luck in making it real for the future.
Here is my summary of this thread for those finding it now:
The promised MIDI 2.0 integration of Keystage with Cubase is not really a thing. This is nicely explained by JRoeper above in this thread here: Help - trying to use Korg Keystage as a Midi Controller - #44 by JRoeper. But, today, we aren’t lacking for anything between the two devices, because the custom MIDI Remote script that we have (above) does everything you might want from MIDI 2.0 regarding integrated control of Cubase and (some) VST Plugins.
As a physical keyboard controller, the Keystage is very nice indeed. It looks great, plays nicely, has useful text info panels above the controller pots, does polyphonic aftertouch, and in general has a good form factor to fit on my desk while still leaving room for mouse, keyboard, CC121… Combined with the MIDI Remote script, it really is a useful controller surface for playing, editing and tweaking your tracks.
I’ve tried the Keystage as a super-portable gigging keyboard, using the Midi Remote script to control 8 different VST instruments in a Cubase project that was ready to go (for a live jam session). I used its Audio passthrough direct to the onstage mixer, so I had a very lightweight and easy to setup system - MacBook, 2 balanced jack cables from Keystage to the mixer, a single USB cable for Keystage to Mac, a foot pedal and the Keystage itself. This is pretty cool. The little metal ‘stand’ for balancing your laptop (particularly on the larger Keystage61) is also very useful. But - current problems with losing connection between the Keystage and Cubase make this risky. The only workaround I know to get the Keystage to reconnect to an open Cubase session when it mysteriously just loses it, is to go to the MIDI Remote Manager page, remove the Keystage-custom controller surface, and then hit the “reload scripts” button at the top right. This seems to work.
If Korg are listening, there are a few things you can do to improve the Keystage right now. The most important is to offer users the ability to have lights not blink at them. The Tempo button! And also the Octave +/-. For the next iteration, we need backlit labels and endless encoders. And 48khz audio project support would be useful.
Thanks for reading! And thanks to everyone above for their help.
Agreed 100%! What I would like to see in addition to the above, is “buttons”. Buttons can make a lot of difference in DAW integrations. For example, say, we’re in an insert effect and want simply to bypass it, or even turn it off. It’s not ideal to have a knob dedicated to that, it’s a waste of a parameter. Currently, I have the bypass of the channel strip plugins set to shift+jog. It’s OK, but a button is a button…
