Help - with Flattening Arranger events?

When I execute the flatten on an arranged chain that has midi tracks and audio tracks - after flattening all the events are entered into the flattened tracks as they were arranges, the midi parts are correct - but each segment of the audio tracks are cut off short - why does that happen?
Thanks for your help…

Hi,

Could you please attach a screenshot before the flattening, the Arranger chain and after?

Thanks for the reply
The attached is before flattening then after

:slight_smile:


Do you possibly not have the Audio Files set to Musical Mode and/or is their tempo in the Pool correct? I can’t tell from the pics.

Are the shortened Audio Events truncated or time compressed - i.e. was part of it cut off or is it complete but shrunk.

Basically the more clues you can give us the better chance someone can figure out what is happening.

Hi Raino - thanks for your reply.

The project is 44.1kHz, 16bit

In the Sample Editor the Audio is defined with Musical Mode. The pool audio is 44.1kHz, 16bit pool tempo is 98, project has Tempo track and all the segments are set to 87 beats

The Audio Events after flattening are shortened truncated cut off and don’t play all the content that was in the arranged event segments.

So do I need to change the Audio in the pool to have 87 beats?

I tried again setting all the pool audio to 87beats and some were 3/4 and some were 4/4 so I changed all pool audio to match project and all the arranged parts are 4/4 so I set all pool audio to 87 and 4/4. then did a flatten - and again the audio events truncated.

I have been testing some variations - back to previous version before altering ANY of the audio events - I set the BEGINNING of the projects tempo track to match what ALL of the arranged events have for tempo = 87, doing so resulted in the audio segments NOT getting cut short - so it seems clear that Cubase just blindly uses whatever the tempo is at the beginning of the project and does not use any of the tempos from the Arranged Events - I think that is clearly a bug.

In this project for me there is still mismatches after flattening is executed and I am trying a few more things to figure out why. I have not found anything in the Cubase manual that discuss any of many possible variations that project can have within projects, and it also seems evident that the Flatten Process is not able to account for the many variations that can be configured in a project. I have not found anything in the manual that says Cubase’s Flatten process needs to have simplicity as a prerequisite in order for the Flatten Function to succeed - but my experiences with the Flattening seems to indicate this is how it works.

Can you please give me clues about how the flatten can work successfully? Thanks much. (I did just simply copy each of my arranged events to a New project and have gotten that to work, but that is not supposed to be necessary, ya know…)

Got it to work - and the result is the exact same as the original project played by the Arranger. I went back to the version before I monkeyed with the Audio files in the Pool. So it had everything as it was recorded and Arranged with Event segments. Now the problem was caused by the fact Cubase uses the Tempo at the project start and this project uses the Temp Track and there is some 120 tempo audio at the beginning of the project and then the Temp is changed by the tempo track to 87 tempo for the arranged event parts.

In order to get the arranger to work OK - I changed a TINY segment (less than and within the quantize interval of 1/128th) of the beginning of the project to use the Temp Track set to 87 tempo - and so that change in the tempo at the beginning necessarily pushed the time line of the project out and so I had to go to each Event in the Arranger and move them by that TINY segment to get back on the beat for each begin and end of each arranged event part. I saved that to a new project file, and then did the Flatten Process to a new project - and that worked. This clearly demonstrates that Cubase incorrectly uses whatever is set at the beginning of the project as input for the flatten process

A DAW that is sophisticated enough to have a tempo adjusted track and an arranger - should be sophisticated enough to use the Tempo Track as input to the Flatten process.

Thanks for your help to get me on the right track to figure this out. :smiley:

If you want to fix this bug the Flatten Process needs to use the Tempo at ALL TIMES even when the tempo track changes the tempo for ALL the events in the arranger - if you want a kludgy fix you could diss-allow the tempo track for the arranger. That would at least tell the user Cubase can’t correctly handle all of its features to work together.

Great you sorted it out.

I both use the Arranger Track and regularly yank the tempo around. But I always use the Arranger near the beginning of a Project when I’m mainly interested in the overall structure and not nuance. So I’ll do that at a fixed tempo. Then after (often way after) I’ve flattened it is when I’ll switch to using the Tempo Track. That is a pretty clean workflow that limits timing problems.

There’s another recent thread about time stretching and several of us pointed out that the Tempo shown in the Pool is not always correct and it is a good idea after recording to double check and modify the file’s tempo if necessary. But this also gets into some tricky stuff about how tempos are handled. For example say you record a vocal chorus and over the course of the chorus the tempo ramps from 120bpm to 128bpm - what determines the tempo shown for the recording in the Pool and how can it tell that the actual recording is constantly changing tempo?

As so many times - Thank You! Raino - I so appreciate you sharing your expert experience! Thankx Man!!!

Can I ask you if you have had success with the tempo track and with having different tempos is the arranged parts than what is at the beginning of the tracks? That would indicate that my scenario detailed previously does not always occur - which would make things a lot less clear that what I stated in my previous update in this thread.

I will revisit that thread you referenced, I think that I scanned it a bit - and it did seems to indicate there are deep problems with the arranger and flattening, but no clues for my case - if it is the one - I think it must be cause nothing else came up in my search. I will re-read the bits about the pool. For me on these tracks I was working out what I wanted for a tempo since I have a lot to learn about music and tempo and did get a lot of experience on this. To you point there is ALOT in front of where I started arranging - using cubase more like a work bench than like a canvas and intending to move these ideas to a different project for development after flattening.

So how do we go about getting Cubase to work better - should we put these kinds of info into the “issues” forum and remove a lot of it frrm this post? I think there is pretty clearly some work for Steinberg here.

Cheers and again Thanks

No. I’ve never used the Arranger with an active Tempo Track only fixed Tempos. All Tempo variation is introduced after the Arranger has been flattened.

This is the thread I referred to, but I don’t think it will prove useful to you.
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=283&t=191345