Help with overlapping graces inside tuplets

[Andro]

I have asked a similar question in the past, but I still find this very difficult. How can I fake out these graces? The MS section is split across two systems, so it is a little hard to read, but I hope it can be understood.

I can work out the first part using a tuplet ratio of 4:1-5, bit I can’t figure out
the ratio for the 3x32 space inside the 9:8 for the next part.

The slashes can be omitted - not important.

[Mark_Johnson]

Sorry, but I cannot read this MS at all. Could you post a screenshot of what you have in Dorico so far, or as much as you can already do, and then explain what’s missing?

[judddanby]

@Andro, are you after the equivalent of this, but where the notes I have as 4:3 are notated as grace notes?

ADDENDUM: So, looking sort of like the second measure?

[judddanby]

Now I got it out of the vocal “player” to eliminate the out-of-range-notes distraction (and besides, I doubt even Bethany Beardslee could have quite handled that one!), added the lower part (which I could only figure out how to enter as 7:4x, as opposed to the stretched 7:8 32nds you have), and put parentheses (or should I say “rounded brackets”…) around the rest in the second version using staff text. Any good…?

ADDENDUM: I invoked Note Spacing in Engrave Mode to spread the four grace notes over the parenthesized rest:

…then fixed the slur on the grace notes:

2024 08.04 Andro Grace Notes.dorico (656.0 KB)

[DanielMuzMurray]

You’ve let me down!

[Mark_Johnson]

And I think Judd has brought us right back up!

[judddanby]

@Andro, I kept thinking about and playing with this notational challenge you posed after I initially posted, realizing that I didn’t fully address the across-the-measure issue.

Here’s the best I was able to come up with:

In order to get there I had to:

• add a second voice in (my) m. 3
• enter in the new voice the same nested 5:4x and 3:2x tuplets filled with rests, but…
• when I passed the second sixteenth note under the nested 3:2x, I entered four eighths as grace notes, followed by a sixteenth rest
• I used Edit > Remove Rests to hide most of the second voice’s rests
• I hid the second voice’s tuplets and final (sixteenth) rest by setting their color to 0% Opacity under the color property
• finally, I did a bunch of manual note and beam dragging in Engrave Mode

What I could not figure out how to do was get the eight grace notes grouped under one beam spanning the barline. I leave that to others with greater skill. But I hope this approximation is at least helpful!

Here’s the updated Dorico project:

2024 08.07 Andro Grace Notes.dorico (737.1 KB)

[judddanby]

And…one more idea (I’m gettin’ all ‘pit bull’ on this one…!):

This time I:

• placed the caret at the second sixteenth note under the nested 3:2x, then entered in the downstem voice a thirty-second note 8:5 tuplet (which I hid by engaging Number in the Properties Panel

• scaled the notes to grace-note size [Write]

• 

• selected the eight (soon-to-be) grace notes and set the (triple) Beaming > Thickness to 0 spaces. [Engrave Mode]

• created a custom thick horizontal line with the Lines Tool for the faux-eighth note “beam” [Write Mode], then lengthened and positioned it as necessary [Engrave]

• added a thin vertical line to be the grace-note slash [Write] and tilted and positioned in [Engrave]

The nice thing about this approach is that it obviated the need for 0% opacity anything. I just had to Edit > Remove Rests for all but the parenthesized dotted sixteenth rest in (my) m. 6. (Parentheses added as staff text; positioned in Engrave.)

I also elected to flip some of the stem directions from your manuscript, thinking that it would be a bit clearer visually.

Any good?

2024 08.07 Andro Grace Notes.dorico (810.5 KB)