Hermode tuning only working on Steinberg synths/samplers?

The microtuner midiplugin set to “Harmonic” tunes the retrologue to a perfect seventh chord, but turning the Hermode tuning on or of has no effect at all on the retrologue. Is Hermode tuning really working?

It does work, but there’s probably a setting related to pitch in retrologue you have to turn on.

http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=175&t=35822&

Aloha a,

While HT does not work with my SampleTank and NI stuff,
it sure does work with ‘Halion Sonic’. I use it often.

But you may be right about other VSTI’s

I have not tried HT with Steiny’s
Retrologue/Padshop/Mystic/Spector/Prologue/Loopmash.
Going forward I will try them out and post results.

To answer your question:

Hermode tuning not working?

It is working here. With Halion Sonic.

HTH (hope this helps)
{’-’}

curteye we posted at the same time… heh.

Yes I saw that and was going respond to the

‘a setting related to pitch in retrologue’

comment.

I have been since looking for and reading manuals
and so far cannot find a setting to turn on HT
directly in the Retrologue VSTI.

I’m not done yet. I’ll keep looking :slight_smile:

{’-’}

Hm, weird. I tried Retrologue just now with Hermode and it worked out of the box. No special setting needed, where there was for Prologue.

I used the preset “Sine Pad” and turned off the MOD and DEL effects. Made a major triad chord; the effect was loud and clear. When there’s chorus, delay or distortion it masks the Hermode effect. Could that be what’s happening?

Edit: tried with a major 7 chord too. Definitely working. Makes me jealous. I want to use it with my chamber strings library, but it’s in Kontakt.

I posted a request in the NI forum, maybe other interested parties would want to do the same…
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195767

Thanks a lot.

In my system, the microtuning plugin works on the retrologue and the padshop + the Halion 4 from the default patch. I use a c7 chord at the root position repeating every bar and insert the “Harmonic” microtuning preset in the Midi inserts. Very effective, and my god it’s wonderful to listen to a perfectly tuned dominant seventh chord…brings chills down the spine :wink:

Halionsonic SE does not respond to the microtuning this way (I use the “Easy SAW Comp” preset, filter all up.)

If I activate/deactivate Hermode tuning in the Project setup panel,(hermode set to 100) NOTHING happens.
I can’t detect a change in the Halionsonic as you said… :frowning: Perhaps my ears are falling of :wink:)

Isn’t the point of the Hermode to get perfect fifths/thirds/sevenths in the given key?
btw…how does miss Hermode know what key you are in?
What am I missing here?
I did this test with all my softsynths, with very disappointing results:
The only synths reacting to microtuning was:

Chromaphone - no
Retrologue - yes!
Arturia CS-80 - no
Arturia JP-8 - no
Arturia mini V - no
Arturia Sem V - no
Z3TA+2 - yes!
Lush 101 - no :frowning:
Fxpansion Dcam - no :frowning:
Pianoteq 4 - no
NI Massive/Kontakt 5 - reacts, but wrong implementation, turns mono!
Halion 4 - yes!
Padshop - yes!
TAL U-NO-LX 1/2 - no
U-He Ace/Diva - reacts, but wrong implementation, transposes all down a semitone + hangs forever, sad story.
Halionsonic SE - no

I could not get >Hermode going on ANY of these…not much fun yet in the tuning department, alas :frowning:

arvfur, I updated my post while you were writing.

As far as what hermode does- it tunes pitches sounding together to be in just tuning. It is contextual, dependent upon the pitches. It doesn’t care about what key you’re in, and you can tell Cubase which track you want to use as the standard for analysis.

The soft synth has to support the commands sent which are part of the VST 2.4 spec, but not VST 2.4 vstis implement it. There ought to be a law! :imp:

Are you turning Hermode on for the tracks in the Midi Modifier section?

Thanks again Steve!
…forgot to turn on the Hermode in the midi modifier section :blush:
…please forgive my ignorance…

Not to worry! That option doesn’t belong in Midi modifiers anyway IMO, since it is not sending or modifying midi messages.

In my system, only Steinberg synths/samplers/romplers react to the hermode tuning, alas :frowning:

…not that they are bad, on the contrary: they are great.
I will use them even more because of this.

We should encourage Arturia,NI, D16 group, U-he (and others) to update their synths to be responsive to microtuning.

post in this thread in the NI forum, maybe other interested parties would want to do the same…
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum … p?t=195767

And don’t forget this HT thang only give you a few options.

In my head I can ‘hear’ dozens if not hundreds.

If implemented in the ‘real world’ they would probably sound like pure crap
but it would be nice to be able to explore those options.

{’-’}

Hermode does work on outside VSTis. Aria player from Plogue for example which is the player fro Garritan libraries.

Could you elaborate on that?

you guys sure seem to like HR! :smiley:
I tried it a couple of times, and it sounded awful, everything became sterile as ****! (my sole purpose is to make it NOT sound like that :smiley:!)

I use mostly use Steinsynths because of their better functionality for automations and advanced functions;
maybe Im not really getting the functions of HR? any tips from the Pro’s?

Sure Steve,
I believe this started with my 1st instrument which was a trombone.
The thing about a ‘bone’ is it is one instrument that can play in perfect tune.

Playing in a brass quartet was always 'satisfying in some sense
while performing a duet for ‘Piano and Trombone’ was not.

Even with a properly tuned Steinway, if we were in the key of say ‘F’
and we both played a ‘C’ note, the piano note
would always sound slightly out to me.
As would many other notes. I would have to compensate with the slide.

The piano sounded stiff and inflexible while the bone sounded round and warm.

Now I’m not talking about the ‘timbre’ of the sounds here
but rather the ‘colour’ of the frequencies.

Once I switched from bone to ‘electric guitar’ (and what a story that one is) I was able to explore this
tuning thang…a bit.
Alas ye olde electric guitar does also have its ‘sonic limits’.

But in later years the ‘guitarsynth’ really allowed me to get into this aspect of music/sound creation
but as I posted, most of my attempts have been a sonic disaster.

Still this is what we are all about right?
Nothing ventured…

I am enjoying the HT feature in C7 but as I said in a previous post
(and as Antonis posted) be careful.
HT can really suck the life out of some stuff. Raunch guitars for example.

{’-’}

I love the dominant 7 chords…
Barbershop a capella quartets use this effect for all it’s worth, defining barbershop as having at least 60% dominant 7th chords. The pure intonation of a dom 7th makes for a beautiful and fulfilling sound not possible with eqal tempered instruments.
…or the Turkish classical music “comma” system, dividing a semitone into 4 more notes…
…or mr Harry Partch’s endless just intonated musical universe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8NIpPhXpfQ

Curteye, I’m a violinist, so I see things the same way. I thought you were talking about some other options in how to use Hermode tuning…

Just or pure tuning, which is what the HT system produces would only sound right with instruments that play together in pure tuning, like horns, woodwinds or strings. Tempered instruments like guitar and piano get some of their character from the beats produced by their slight out of tune-ness. A piano in just tuning would sound weird, not to mention being unable to modulate keys. As a guitarist I imagine (curteye) you adjust pitch within chords by bending strings slightly or pressing harder against the fret? And in mono lines I think every musician adjusts pitch as they play. Cubase HT tries to do that, but can’t really do what we do.

When I do stuff with strings I use a Kontakt based library so I haven’t tried out the HT except to see that it works and fool around with it a bit in the Garritan Orchestra.

My interest in this by the way is not mainly to be able to use the HT feature, but to use Cubase to tune microtones with the Microtuner midi insert for Turkish and Middle Eastern maqam. This uses the same set of commands, apparently, and that’s why it doesn’t work in so many VST instruments. It has to be specifically implemented.

Arvfur posted while I am writing this… Barbershop, yeah! I love that sound. And check out Hindemith’s Mathis Der Mahler, there is a woodwind passage that is written (imo) to bring out the quality of that pure intonation.

Arvfur, thanks for that youtube. Awesome.

In a way I was but I have always been interested in harmonies based on frequencies not
specific notes.
I alway want to hear the sounds in-between the black and white keys.
That’s where the angels jam.

In searching for the ‘pure’ I fine that ‘frequencies’ exist freely in nature
while notes/scales/harmonies are man made.

Guess that’s why it’s called: ‘music theory’ eh?

Without hitting this too hard; I guess what I am looking for are the ‘Harmonies of God’
Even tho’ my ears are stuck here on Earth with scales, notes and tunings etc.

I truly feel that there has got to be more to it than this.
And if it is out there, I’m gonna find it! :slight_smile:
And there is always the possibility that if I do
find it. I won’t like it. It’s been that way so far.

HT in C7 is just another tool with which to explore.

Now back to this version of Zep’s Kashmire that I am working on
scored for violin and trombone. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Rosin up Steve. :slight_smile:
{’-’}