hmm, dotted appoggiatura, how?

Hello,

I stumbled over a little quirk, trying to do a dotted appoggiatura. How is this possible in Dorico?


dotted appoggiatura.png

You could by setting the grid in the lower left corner to 16th notes and use alt-shift right-arrow on the 8th-note to make it longer.
Don’t know why the normal way does not work here.

Jesper

Wow, this sounds like an intelligent workaround - will try this tomorrow!
Thank you Jesper.

Jesper, the suggested workaround does not work - unless I am misunderstanding something…
I have set the grid to semiquavers (16th notes), but when I try to extend the appoggiaturas quaver note (8th note) it just pops into a crotchet (quarter note). There seems to be nothing in between…

The only workaround I can think of now is to produce a tiny dot with the text tool and place it at that very place. I wonder if that will survive a .pdf file conversion and printout - here my result:


dotted appoggiatura - Dorico.png
dotted appoggiatura - dot placed with text tool.png

It works fine here. Are you sure you have set 16th like in the picture below?

Jesper

Just curious: who wrote this? I find it really hard to imagine that a composer would write a dotted appoggiatura right after a dotted rhythm, the performance of which would necessitate the addition of a [partial] beat. More important, I’d be interested to see a manuscript of this. It may be an editorial misreading. I’ve seen plenty of examples of this, like a harpsichord teacher’s conviction of incredible harmonic innovation by Froberger, which simply turned out to be show through from the page behind.

As logical interpretation would be as in this attachment.

I vaguely remember seeing something similar in (early?) Haydn keyboard piece.

It follows the general principle that one purpose of ornaments was to stop over-enthusiastic performers from “ornamenting an ornament”. If this was written in full size notes it might be tempting to add a turn between the D and E.
dotted appogiatura.png

Jesele’s method works for me following the instruction to make the note longer with shift-alt-right arrow, but IIRC Dorico doesn’t claim to be able to make dotted grace notes and you can’t enter them directly.

So maybe this will stop working when somebody fixes a bug :slight_smile:

Indeed. Very good point, Rob.

It is by C. P. E. Bach:


Jesper, it definitely does not work here. I guess it must be a bug:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3l8osgc1q3ymkql/extend%20an%20appoggiatura.mov?dl=0

Strange, if you send me the file I can try.

Jesper

Thank you Jesper, I have sent you a link to the file per private message.

It’s also in CPE Bach’s “Bible”. Chapter 2 Part 8

:+1:t2::+1:t2::+1:t2: well spotted :grinning:

Probably just trying to troll his dad.

The first edition of part I was published 3 years after his dad died, and part II didn’t appear till 9 years later. (The clip is from part I.)

Touche! :smiley:

No problem changing it here, dm:ed you the edited version.

Jesper

Thank you Jesper, this is very strange indeed, it must be a bug. Your file displays the dotted appoggiatura, but I can not change it to any other value besides dotted values (dotted semiquaver or dotted crotchet), as if the dot is a stuck property:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ryog82lcsqcyz8f/dotted%20appoggiatura%20is%20stuck.mov?dl=0
I am using Dorico Pro version 3.5.10.1045 on a Mac.