HORRIFIC performance of Dorico 3

The bit about graphics cards has come up before. I’m certain that’s not really a factor.

Maybe not a factor for 1080p display. I use a 4k monitor in my dorm.
Latest Qt on macOS may have worse 4k performance with previous-generation graphics.
Sometimes I use resolutiontab to turn-off retina mode for the entire macOS, and Dorico UI responsiveness gets 4x accelerated.
It is a hardware limitation to me, still.

I will try downscaling my 4k monitor to 1080p to see what difference that makes.

Responding to Daniel, it’s not really setup or galley/page view which seems unusually slow, but rather everyday things, like moving a passage between instruments (Alt+M/N), moving it left or right (Alt+left/right) copying to staff below or above (Shift+Alt+M/N). Those are the main ones I’ve noticed, but sometimes even copy pasting a passage or even a single note results in a noticeable (albeit small) “hiccup”. I work mainly in page mode and this project in particular is an orchestral arrangment I’m making of a String quartet piece. I’ve already copied all the music from the strings and even while working on a custom layout where only those are showing I felt the “hiccups”. I will send the prject along with a Diagnostic report to your email.
Thank you very much.

Do you have any non-Apple antivirus application runing in the background? (Or some CPU-consuming background apps like Adobe Creative Cloud?)
Also, I personally recommend doing such edits in Gallery View. If any Page View is being opened, its contents get redrawn per operation you mentioned above (which is pretty process-consuming).

Hi. I have a MB Pro Retina Mid 2014 in which all these problems seem a bit more present, but when I wrote the post I was working on a Windows PC (Edited signature to reflect build), so the non-Apple antivirus does not apply. I also checked and there are no prominent processor intensive applications running in the background. I usually work with Dorico open plus 2 or 3 PDFs open in Adobe Reader DC, plus some chrome tabs, but that’s about it. Some times I also have Cubase Pro 8 open, but not regularly.

Reducing the resolution to 1080p did not do much, and neither did working in Galley View, those issues are still there (Which Daniel also suggested via email) That said, I read a development Diary regarding Galley View and at least now I get why it is less processor intensive.

Waiting to add a player or switch modes loses me a few minutes every session. Flows, cues, percussion, part layout, not entering rests, and editing existing music saves me hours. Maybe I’m just glad I don’t have to load the program in from a tape recorder…

To my knowledge and experience, in 1080p, Dorico UI redraw efficiency behaves better on macOS Catalina than on Windows 10. (acceptable vs a little unendurable.)

I’m not using Catalina yet, and even if I did it’s not my main computer, so that point is moot in my case. Will keep in mind though.

Reading through what posts I could find, another question arises: how dependant is Dorico on the CPU? and in what capacity? I’ve read that many things are calculated sequenatially, which (in my understanding) points to having a higher frequency being preferable to having more cores.
But then I’ve read (I think it was Daniel himself) that having more physical cores is in itself a measure of better performance, which would point to things not being calculated sequentially.

So for a real life scenario: How would I benefit from upgrading my CPU (an i7 6700k, 4 cores, 8 threads, @ 4.0 GHz) to say an i9 9900k (8cores, 16 threads, @3.6 GHz) or a Ryzen 3900x (12 cores, 24 threads @3.8 GHZ). I’m not asking about Intel vs. AMD, but rather the potential improvemnts by adding cores/threads/clock speed

Having multiple cores is significant to Dorico performance.

System requirements here…

I have a 4-core i7 machine and an 8-core Ryzen 7 machine, and I notice a significant improvement in performance in the latter.

Thanks Derreck and Dan.

I know it’s not a clear cut answer given there are many factors and it may be more than just the cpu, but as an estimate, how significant would you say the improvement is? 15%? 50%? 100%?
I’m trying to assess whether it’s worth it to upgrade. Given what I’ve read, it probably is (and an upgrade works for more than just Dorico) but still, it’s better to ask and do the research than to just throw money at the problem and see if that works.

I would say certain functions are… maybe 50% faster. That’s a very unscientific guess, but it’s significant enough that I much prefer working on my faster machine for some specific tasks in Dorico, like manual note spacing and working with large scores. Many common functions are basically the same between machines.

Of course, I was perfectly happy with the slower machine when that’s all I had. Then getting a faster machine spoiled me. :unamused:

FWIW, my performance is certainly not “horrific”, but I noticed a distinct sluggishness for all functions across the board. I believe this began with either 3.0 or 3.1. Now there seems to be a half-second delay for everything I do. It isn’t terrible, but it is enough to be disruptive to concentration. I do not have any condensing scores turned on, and the sluggishness is about the same in simple lead sheets and much bigger projects. Prior to 3.0, certain things were slow, but entering notes and other routine actions were practically instantaneous.

I have 16 GB and a 4-core system that was pretty fast when I had it built about 7 years ago. If I had high confidence that a faster machine would mostly eliminate this hesitation, I would look into upgrading.

I believe you all, and you do some different things and much longer pieces than I do. I tend to stress the audio engine more than layouts. But there is no way in my own limited personal experience that I’d call Dorico slow.

I have a garden variety MacBook Pro 2017 running Catalina. I mostly run a separate VST plugin instance for each player in a score, (Somtimes more than one) and each of those is loaded with at least a few separate 24 bit articulation samples, and THOSE have multiple mic position/samples loaded. Unless its a sound that has a role in the piece that I don’t care that much about - sorry to the Triangle players :slight_smile: There is at least one instance of a better/heavier convolution reverb, and maybe a few more (tends to be so as inserts, since Dorico only has one working send)

I’m not saying that it is blazing - but for comparison Siblielus would stutter like Trump taking a Polygraph. I can and have killed Sibelius routinely with a much smaller load. Its one of the things that made Dorico a “must have” for me that I didn’t have to do most of the work with a lighter template loaded, and wasn’t necessarily forced to export to a DAW for final processing. I forgive it if a couple of other tasks take half a second.

The biggest difference for me was switching to a Samsung T5 SSD drive. Dorico does load the CPU - gets almost to hot to touch, and the Mac Power supply isn’t enough depending on what I’ve got plugged into it - the battery actually discharges slowly when playing back for long periods with the SSD.

I know you guys have your reasons and I respect them. I wouldn’t complain if it got faster - can’t ever have TOO much speed. But as it is, I still think I owe Ulf a beer.

I tried installing Dorico 2.2 to compare but the issues remained mostly the same :frowning:

Thanks for the reply, I will keep it in mind.

I know the feeling :wink:

One thing I have noticed (and it may have nothing to do with this situation) is that the anti-virus software continues to creep up in resource usage. Part of this is because the threats continue to increase. But another part of it is because the AV vendors feel like they need to keep expanding the shields they offer. I have used several products. I have been on Avast for 3 or 4 years. I noticed they now have installed about a dozen separate products beyond the basic AV checking. I don’t need or want most of those. I have just uninstalled most of the Avast product on my office (not studio) computer and it seems to be running better. I am going to do the same thing on the studio computer.

There may be similar factors with the other AV products. It creeps up slowly so you might not notice it.

On Windows, there’s really no need to use anything other than the built-in Windows Defender software, which puts very modest demands on system resources and doesn’t bloat your system with other unwanted services.

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Anyone know if, for Windows, the build-in Windows Defender is faster than Webroot? I’ve been using Webroot thinking it was the fastest.

According to the AV-Test evaluations:

Windows Defender (October 2019): Protection 6.0 Performance 6.0 Usability 5.5 - one of their “top product” ratings.
Webroot (June 2019): Protection 2.0 Performance 5.5 Usability 4.0

I find that my CPU barely doesn’t work during these rather slow operations of Dorico - 13 flows/15instruments - where changing the header of a layout will take around 20 sec. from the time I hit apply and then close.
Shouldn’t the CPU use reflect that these operations that takes so much energy/time?
My CPU monitor never goes above 25% during my work with Dorico. This is quite different from others apps like Cubase and Logic.