It is a bit frustrating when entering dotted notes and/or ties that Dorico will redraw my rhythm choices to conform to one of the settings for note groupings in the Notations Options.
Isn’t there any way to override them. I haven’t found a configuration of all these options that allows me to notate what I want to see. I have to sometimes resort to sludges, for example, using a slur in place of a tie when the tie would cause note values to change.
While I’m on the topic, I’ve noticed problems with rhythms in places where 2nd voices on a staff occur only on a few notes in a measure. When I remove the rests in the voice earlier in the measure, it can screw up the rhythms in the second voice. I sometimes end up with situations where one voice will have a quarter note on an offbeat, and the 2nd voice will have two tied eights at the same place in the measure.
Your video is not appearing. It says “no video with supported format and mime type found”.
But you can always use “force duration” (the clamp icon in the left toolbox, letter “O” as a hotkey) to force it to render as a specific note value. You certainly don’t have to use a slur in the place of a tie. Use “force duration” on the first note before tying them. In the event that you can’t get the first note before the tie to appear the way you want initially, enable “force duration” before creating it.
For the other issue you might have to show an example. I’m not sure I understand from your text description.
Thanks for the solution. Recently cross graded from Finale. I didn’t know what the force duration tool was. (I tried to link to a screen recording up on Dropbox. Is there anyway to upload a video to the chat? If not I’ll have to find the correct way to link)
The other difficulty with the second voice is a non-issue with the force duration tool. But suffice it to say, I’ve found that notes in a second voice conform to different grouping settings when rests in the beginning of a measure are removed.
I guess the way Dorico works with rests is different than Finale where a rest could be made invisible. Is there a way to hide an element as in Finale.
Thanks for your help,
Dave
The best way of explaining the “force duration” tool is that Dorico by default does not store any information regarding how the note should be displayed - only the beat or subdivision of the beat where the note starts and the beat or subdivision of the beat where it ends. It works out dynamically based on where the note starts, ends, and the length to determine how it should be displayed (as a single note, or a series of tied notes). When you tell Dorico to create a half note for instance, in normal circumstances, it doesn’t actually tell Dorico “create a half note”, even though that’s what it looks like. Rather, it tells Dorico “create a note equal in length to a half note, starting where the caret is”, and after creating this note, it decides how best to display it (as one note or a series of tied notes). The advantage of this method is that you can perform operations like lengthening the note, shortening it, or moving it horizontally with very little effort.
When force duration is set for a particular note, it stores an extra piece of data with the note that tells Dorico how it should render that note. So forcing duration on the note before the tie, Dorico stores this extra information with the note, and then realizes when you tie them together, that it has to keep this initial duration component.
Yes, there is, but it may not be the best way of solving a particular problem. If you can take a screenshot of an example it might help to identify the best solution. You usually shouldn’t have to “remove rests” even though that option is available.
Unfortunately I’ve never tried uploading a video to this forum before so I’m not exactly sure of the best way.
This is absolutely the case. I may have a quarter tied to an eighth, and then I remove the rest after it, it will change to a dotted quarter.
I don’t see Hide Rests on the Edit menu, nor does it pop up when I type it into help. Are you sure?
Force duration on the quarter note there before removing the rests, then it should remain a quarter.
I think Janus might be getting mixed up with Remove Rests - I’ve never seen an option called “Hide Rests”. The way I know of to hide rests is to change the “color” of the rest by making it transparent (by setting opacity or alpha channel to 0 for the rest depending on whether it is MacOS or Windows). I find this awkward though, because you have to go into the color picker and adjust the settings there. It’s easier to remove rests, but force duration first if removing the rests causes the rhythms to suddenly change from what you want.
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remove the eighth rest.dorico (597.7 KB)
The culprit is the eight rest on the third beat. The half rest at the beginning of the measure can be removed without causing the displayed rhythm to play. Try it yourself
Thank you for your explanation of how Dorico “sees” note data. It is not much different than a note in a piano roll of a MIDI file I guess.
It is ingenious in that rests are implied as spaces between the notes, taking out much of the need to enter them.
This must be why it is relatively easy to move a note backwards and forwards in time, with Dorico parsing different algorithms how to display the note and rest values around it.
Precisely - I wasn’t sure if you were familiar with the idea of a piano roll so I didn’t mention that initially, but that’s exactly what it is like. A single note or a series of tied notes is stored as a single object, like a rectangle in the piano roll, and rests are the absence of notes (empty space). Dorico actually has a piano roll built in as well where you can edit/add/remove notes like from a MIDI sequencer or DAW.
The “tie” and “untie” features are not unlike the glue and scissors tools that you might find in a piano roll as well - tie is gluing two notes together to turn it into one, and untie is like the scissors, cutting a note into two separate notes.
In this particular case I would “force duration” on the quarter immediately following that eighth rest, and then remove the eighth rest with “remove rests”. In general, you don’t want to use “force duration” where unnecessary, but in this case I would call it necessary.
Just so you are aware - “remove rests” doesn’t “delete” the rests like it may seem. What it is actually doing is manipulating the “starts voice” and “ends voice” property as needed on the notes in that new voice. In this particular situation, when you “remove” the eighth rest, what it actually does is enables “starts voice” on the following quarter note (the one that becomes two tied eighths). The “removed” rest(s) can always be brought back by changing the “starts voice” and “ends voice” properties on the surrounding notes to off.