How do I change a note in a bar without changing the entire piece?

[boomerhead]

I’ve been VERY frustrated trying to edit a piece. I have a couple of notes here and there that I want to change or that may have been left out. When I hit insert mode, sometimes the Lock Duration option is marked unavailable. Sometimes the Force Duration option is unavailable. I can’t tell what is happening to cause those to be unavailable. If I don’t use insert mode, the rest of the piece still changes.

If I just want to change one bar–why does the entire piece from that point forward have to change? Music in the western sense is bar by bar (most of the time anyway). Is there a way to turn this global change off?

I’m using Dorico 5. It’s so frustrating that I’m not really sure I want to continue with the software at all. Coming from Finale–I know there’s a LOT to get used to–but simply changing a bar rest to a quarter note and two quarter rests in a 3/4 bar, should not change the entire piece from that point on. I left a note out. It almost feels like I’m being punished for not getting everything perfect the first time around. Do I bother getting the latest Dorico 6 upgrade? Will this change in that version?

[asherber]

Sorry this is frustrating for you, @boomerhead .

If you have an empty 3/4 bar that’s displaying a whole rest, and you want to add a quarter note to the bar, then you definitely don’t want Insert mode on – that mode is for shifting existing music so you can “insert” new things. Here you’re just entering music into an empty bar. And you also don’t need Force Duration.

All you have to do here, in Write mode, is double-click into the bar and enter the quarter note you want. Dorico will supply the quarter rests that come after it.

[k_b]

Corey, you are on the right track.
“Insert Mode” has a special meaning in Dorico: Everything you insert in this mode will get its place by shifting everything that follows in that same voice. So “Insert Mode” will add and shift.
If you plan to insert music by overwriting existing music, don’t use “Insert Mode”, instead move the caret to the rhythmic position you’d like to start your edit and put in your music. It will overwrite the existing (if it’s in the same voice) and keep all following music as it is.

[Janus]

@boomerhead

Music in the western sense is bar by bar (most of the time anyway)

Sorry, but that is fiction. Music is a flow of time, the length of which is determined by the durations of a sequence of notes (and rests). The barlines are completely secondary.

Once you get your head around that everything makes sense.

Insert mode inserts more musical time (hence everything later must move to make room). Without insert mode, a change to a note duration simply overwrites what is already there. So to overwrite a whole bar rest with a crotchet (and rests), just write a crotchet (the residual rests will be calculated automatically).

Lock Duration is only used to re-pitch existing notes. Thus it makes no sense with Insert mode.

Force Duration is only needed when your preferred notation breaks the rules defined by the note grouping/beaming options that you have set.

(It’s a good idea to play around with all these tools eg. on a simple set of notes. Try changing note durations with/without insert, or changing time signatures - also see what happens with tuplets!)

[matt-music]

@boomerhead

Coming from Finale–I know there’s a LOT to get used to–but simply changing a bar rest to a quarter note and two quarter rests in a 3/4 bar, should not change the entire piece from that point on. I left a note out.

I also came from Finale. The biggest adjustment for me was learning what the “rhythmic grid” is all about, and then making myself comfortable with it.

As others have said, you do not need to be in Insert mode, which is a paradigm shift from Finale note input. But you do need to be at the approximate point in the bar where you want to change or add a note. When you double-click at that point, you will be in Note Input mode. Enter your duration and note, and then ESCape right back out of there. Nothing else will move.

Example: I want the bass voices to sing a single quarter note underneath the tenors, but I left it out. So I double-click where the second beat in a 3/4 bar would appear, and this is what I see:

Note that the Rhythmic Grid has appeared above the bar (orange on my system), and there is a “ghost note” present, which happens to be where I wanted that note. So I click again at that spot, and the quarter note I had desired is now placed:

The caret has moved to the next possible spot on the Rhythmic Grid (beat 3), and is ready for further input. It has not shoved the quarter rest into the next measure (and incidentally tossed the entire bass line from that point forward out of sync with the other parts), because I am not in Insert Mode.

I absolutely understand your frustration, and will gently suggest that it’s more about unlearning some Finale concepts than it is about learning Dorico concepts. Earlier this year I was stymied by how to enter lyrics efficiently, because I had adapted myself to Finale’s Lyrics tool in all its hobbled glory over the 30 years I used the software. Other forum members here guided me to the glories of OPT/ALT click to replicate lyrics on other lines, and it has now become second nature.

I hope you’ll keep trying. I absolutely do not regret jumping on the Finale/Dorico crossgrade, which I did a week after MM’s announcement. And I don’t regret the v.6 upgrade, either. For the record, the behavior of Insert mode is exactly the same in v.6. As it should be, because you do not want to be in Insert mode for what you’re doing.

Good luck and stay in touch!

[charles_piano]

@boomerhead

It almost feels like I’m being punished for not getting everything perfect the first time around.

Dorico is indeed the best friend of those who like to change their mind — or fix mistakes without having to rewrite everything (and I’m a Finale refugee too!)

Here is just a simple example of the different ways you can rewrite music in the middle of a piece. Piano and flute. Five different results for the exact same correction: I’m just entering a quarter note in the right hand of the piano, bar 2 beat 3. It shows that every possible scenario has been planned:

1. Without insert mode: as @asherber and @k_b were saying, it overwrites the existing music. Nothing moves.
   

2. With Insert Mode:
   a. Insert (voice): Only the voice I’m correcting is shifting to the right. Here, the right hand of the piano. Piano left hand and flute don’t move
   

b. Insert (Player): All notes of the player move: here, both staves of the piano. Flute doesn’t move.

c. Insert (Global): All the instruments move

d. Insert (Global adjustment of current bar). Like the previous one, all the music moves, but also the next barline, and the Times Signatures are adjusted.

[sjanssens]

There’s a couple of things you may be missing here:

Others have covered Insert mode, but another way of looking at it is it’s just like the insert key for typing text. If you’re in insert mode for whatever thing you’re typing text into, letters typed in are “inserted” at the point of the cursor and all the letters after that point are shifted right. Turning off insert mode causes the new letters to overwrite whatever letter is in that space.

Dorico treats rests differently than other notation programs. In Dorico rests are just the space between notes. While you can insert rests, it’s probably best to just let Dorico handle the rests while you focus on the notes. You don’t replace a whole rest; you just start entering notes and Dorico will automatically adjust the bits without notes. And if you’re in insert mode, Dorico will move the space the whole rest takes up to the right.

When you’re entering music, rather than inserting rests, you can press the space bar to advance the caret. Entering a note in the new spot will cause the appropriate rest to appear between the notes.

[Janus]

@sjanssens

…another way of looking at it is it’s just like the insert key for typing text. If you’re in insert mode for whatever thing you’re typing text into, letters typed in are “inserted” at the point of the cursor and all the letters after that point are shifted right. Turning off insert mode causes the new letters to overwrite whatever letter is in that space.

That’s a good way of explaining it.

[boomerhead]

Thanks for the help! My difficulty overall is the complexity of the Dorico UI and there’s a LOT to get used to. I feel like I’m moving from 1987 MacPaint to 2025 Photoshop. (Yeah–I know I’m really letting you know my age there.) Things are so different, if there’s been only a week or two between projects, it feels like I’ve forgotten everything. Some things are good…others seem over-complex when a couple of clicks could suffice. Maybe now that Finale is gone, can Steinberg buy the code and not have to worry about copyright or patent infringement? (Kinda kidding–kinda not…)

I’ve made the note of the difference between “I” for insert–not INPUT. I was also unaware of the grid. I would see it, but it never seemed to respond for me or do what I was expecting–though not exactly sure what I should have expected. Probably because I was in insert mode, too.

Still would love to understand the reasoning behind moving things from one point onward when in insert mode. It seems to be an unnecessary complication when most of what we do has bar lines.

Again…thanks for talking me down.

[arco]

@boomerhead

over-complex

Overly-different?

Many of us here are with you to help. Please feel free to ask, screenshots or a cut down version of the Dorico file helps immensely so the answering is specific. Hundreds, thousands have made the jump to Dorico from Finale, so understand your frustration. From time to time, if you have a little time, search for Finale learning threads here, there are many, suggestions to help transition, links to videos, etc.
Best to spend some time learning some of the basics before tackling a real project if you can, time well spent.

Welcome to one of the most helpful forums around
Best wishes

[Janus]

@boomerhead

Still would love to understand the reasoning behind moving things from one point onward when in insert mode. It seems to be an unnecessary complication when most of what we do has bar lines.

Perhaps this page from the manual might help you…
Dorico Concepts - Rhythmic position