How to do side chain with solo piano only?

The idea is to use solo piano track (midi) as kick drum to trigger the reverb on a piano. ( so the reverb goes up and down until the next note). Tempo is very slow - 60bps. This music is for sleeping. Sometimes there is only one note in two measures… The most important thing here is the reverb that has to start after for example. 1 sec., going louder and back to softer. It would be slow attack and long release, I get that. But how to use the midi note of a piano to trigger the reverb in a side chain? HM? Piano melody is just a slow improvisation, not a rhythmic one. Thanks, I asked many people but seems nobody is getting this :slight_smile:

I really don’t understand what you mean by this - especially the kick drum reference. But perhaps this will help.

It sounds like you have a piano Track. And you you want to use the notes in that piano Track to trigger a reverb that you will somehow use on a piano Track. It’s not clear if the piano Track is the one used for triggering or another different piano Track.

It also sounds like you don’t have any audio feeding the input of the reverb. If so then when you gate the Reverb nothing will happen. With no input signal the reverb will be silent. So gating it would be like turning the volume up & then down on an empty Track - gating silence is only gonna produce silence.

If what you want is for one piano Track to have reverb on it that is delayed awhile after the piano sound occurs, you don’t need to gate anything. Just create an FX Channel with these Inserts in order

  • Delay line with single delay, no repeats
  • Reverb
  • Envelope Shaper

Then use a Send on your piano Track to this FX Channel. Depending on the Reverb used it might be all you need as some will allow you to set a delay and create envelopes.

The “LFO tool” is a cool plugin you should check out. It basically gives the sidechain effect on the track without any other instruments or compressors. It works mainly based on metronome speed and rate, but I think you can also trigger it as midi.

There’s a few ways to do this depending on the reverb plugin you’re using.

Probably the easiest way, is to duplicate whichever track you wish to use as the trigger, select no output for the duplicated track and prefader send the signal into the reverb as a sidechain.

This way it can be done with an audio or instrument track rather than using a midi signal.

Hello raino,
Your input is very appreciated, sorry I was not clear.
I should have given the reference example:

So, I will play a solo like in this example and you can hear the reverb does not start after the note but raise after 1 sec.
This is what I want to achieve, that slowly pumping of the reverb and that falling back.
Also, notes are clear, reverb does not go over the piano.
So there is probably 2 same tracks, one is with reverb and compression, the other is clean so you can hear piano note close and crystal clear.
If I put just regular reverb it goes straight with a little raising in the velocity.
But in the example is prominent - that up-down movement in the reverb.
Especially if there is only one note in two measures which can take 4-5 seconds. I want there reverb to slowly raise and fall, but not to be muddy. This one is very airy.
When I put a reverb it is “heavy” and dense and it goes straight to the end of the measure. it does not raise and fall by itself.
I have MIDI (Keyscape, Pianotech7) the best piano’s VST. For reverb I have Blackhole, Fab Filter, Valhalla etc. Thanks!

Thank you very much Zaorsha_28!
So you are saying to convert MDI track to audio and it will trigger the side chain?
I will copy the text what I already added to previous comment, as I should have put an example of how it should sound…

"So, I will play a solo like in this example and you can hear the reverb does not start after the note but raise after 1 sec.
This is what I want to achieve, that slowly pumping of the reverb and that falling back.
Also, notes are clear, reverb does not go over the piano.
So there is probably 2 same tracks, one is with reverb and compression, the other is clean so you can hear piano note close and crystal clear.
If I put just regular reverb it goes straight with a little raising in the velocity.
But in the example is prominent - that up-down movement in the reverb.
Especially if there is only one note in two measures which can take 4-5 seconds. I want there reverb to slowly raise and fall, but not to be muddy. This one is very airy.
When I put a reverb it is “heavy” and dense and it goes straight to the end of the measure. it does not raise and fall by itself.
I have MIDI (Keyscape, Pianotech7) the best piano’s VST. For reverb I have Blackhole, Fab Filter, Valhalla etc. "

You don’t have to use side chain at all…

A very high pre delay would give you the ability to separate the reverb from the notes.
And the type of reverb is also important.
The 3 mentioned ones are perfect for this, they differ in sound but should be able to produce the effect you want.

Thank you Stefan,
That is so obvious, how I did not think of that :slightly_smiling_face:
I totally forgot about pre delay!
Yes, I will experiment.
One more question, if you would make a track like this, would you put more that one reverb? ( I am still a beginner in sound engineering). And should I put a short reverb with a long reverb as well in this case? I am still not clear about it, but some people on You Tube advise to put both.
Thanks!

I would use one reverb and would automate the parameters when needed…
I think Blackhole is the easiest way to start

Thank you :slight_smile:

When I listen to to that I hear 2 different things happening. First on the Piano there is a bit of reverb that decays fast and the piano is pretty dry with just enough reverb to put it into a space. This lets the piano sit at the front of the mix.

But there is also this wash of reverb that is what you are asking about. That doesn’t sound (to me) like it is caused by the piano. I think there is a simple synth pad (or maybe just a pedal point) playing long sustained notes. This isn’t used directly in the mix, but is routed to a reverb. And that reverb is the basis of the wash. That volume variation in the wash could be introduced in a variety of ways. It could be modulation in the synth patch itself or as simple as riding the reverb’s fader during the mix (although at over 3 hours long I’d avoid this). A Tremolo plug-in set to extra-super-slow could also work.

While not impossible to use the same reverb on both the piano & wash, in this case they most likely used 2 different reverbs. And “different” could mean 2 iterations of the same plug-in.

One trick is to heavily EQ the signal right before it goes into the reverb. Start by rolling off everything below 1K - this can remove a lot mud & density from the reverb. Then adjust the cutoff frequency higher & lower to taste.

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Thank you raino, sorry for the late reply.