how to get this note input

If you’re on Windows, it’s Ctrl-Shift-N.

It would be helpful if you added your OS in your signature.

They’re two different combinations of keys to press to achieve different things. Here’s information about Notation Options, which you can access in other ways too.

Here’s some information about how the manual (and therefore a lot of users on the forum) consolidate key commands in order to describe the necessary keys for both Mac and Windows at the same time.

Thanks for this
I am searchin a while how to find the notations options ? ( there is a property screen )
Ctrl-Shift -N gives no reaction in my screen ? …where are options in general to find ?

Notation options : Ctrl+Shift +M seems to be not working : has this something to do that i use Dorico elements ?
If so ? that makes Dorico for me useless

Notation Options is not exposed to you in Elements, so you’ll need to get to grips with Force Duration.

Thanks
Yes, its fixed in Elements, so indeed i need to use Force duration if this occur in the score
I am not a serious composer in Dorico and although there is 50 % discount now for pro version, i must using Dorico elements

Ok, lets go further with bar two constructed with force duration
Meanwhile knowing more about Dorico…

  • first i must make the *wrong"bar two again
  • correct this with force duration


    Got now the wanted bar 2 !

But following the instructions from @lille ?
I followed the instructions from @pianoleo and got the wanted note format in bar 2

Note: also for input there are two methods used by @lille and @dankreider
I followed now the input instructions from @lille and from @pianoleo
@dankreider => this noteinput seems to be not working : Shift-Alt_left or rightarrow

  1. Set your rhythmic grid to 8th notes.
  2. Press 7, period, C
  3. Press Shift-Alt-left arrow
  4. Press 4, B, A
    Left over @lille for instructions note input ( don’t know if there are more methods?)

An alternative input method for bar 2 in your example, starting from an empty bar:

Select the bar rest
Press Shift-N to start note input
Press 7 . (period) to select a dotted half note duration
Press C to input a dotted half C
Press T for a tie
Press 5 to select an eighth note duration
Press C to input an eighth C, that will be tied to the previous C on the staff (the dotted half you just input)
Press 4 for 16th notes
Press B then A to input the last 2 notes in the bar.

Dorico by default displays the dotted minim tied to an eighth differently (as a minim tied to a dotted quarter), so that the half-bar is clear. If you really wanted your original notation, you can press O for Force Duration after starting note input.

(@Dan I presume in your step 3 you meant Shift-Alt-Right arrow? to lengthen the dotted half by an eighth note?)


Force Duration

@lille harris
When forcing the duration of existing notes (as it sounds like you’re doing - taking your existing bar 2 and wanting to turn it into the same note grouping as your example?) you have to reduce the note duration of tied notes, otherwise Dorico can’t know exactly what you want (that is, do you want to lock how it looks currently, or change it?)

So for you: select the first note in bar 2, outside of note input. (without the caret.) Make sure Force Duration is active for that C - check in the toolbox on the left. Then press 7 to make it just a half note. Then press . to make it a dotted half. Then you’ll probably need to re-input the eighth note C afterwards. Then leave note input, select the first dotted half C (double-check Force Duration is active), then press T.
Note : ???

@pianoleo
Lillie did already link to the page in the user manual on Force Duration, which explains (in a tip) that if you want to apply force duration to existing notes you need to shorten the note before lengthening it.

If you apply force duration to existing notes, all that does is lock the existing note values. Dorico cannot read your mind; it cannot know exactly what you want. In your case, the steps are as follows:

  1. Select the existing note.
  2. Hit O to turn on Force Duration.
  3. Hit 7 to turn it into a minim/half.
  4. Hit . to dot it.
  5. Ensure that the rhythmic grid is set to quavers/eighths.
  6. Type Shift-Alt-Right to extend by the caret.

(This doesn’t add much to Lillie’s post immediately above, except that my final two steps don’t involve retrospectively adding a tie.)

Are all new users going thrue this sort of learning of note input?
Let Steinberg made a videoexample from this, because learning this noteinput on this way is not advisable

Although I may be wrong, I sense that English is not janhardo’s native language (although his understanding far surpasses my ability to speak or write any of the languages I studied in the past). This may (especially when coupled with technical music terms and Dorico terms in English) make entry into Dorico’s manuals and videos more difficult than usual.

Feel free to post in your native language and let us use Google Translate (or a native speaker at Steinberg) to help us understand what you are facing if that makes it easier for you to express the the obstacles you are facing. Certainly the rhythm you are trying to reproduce is non-standard by some modern conventions, but Dorico can reproduce it if you need to for historical accuracy or to satisfy a client.

Once you know how Dorico expects a rhythm to express itself, you will know when to use Force Duration in advance; and Force Duration is easier to use if you engage it before adding the notes for the measure.

As you can see from this (and other threads) many members of the Dorico community want to do whatever they can to help you feel comfortable with Dorico, and knowing you have made the effort to consult the videos and manual (even if so far you meet difficulties) is something we really appreciate.

Hallo Derrek
Bedankt!
Klopt met wat je schrijft dat de Engelse taal niet mijn moedertaal is.
Het blijkt verbazingwekkend lastig te zijn om met Dorico te starten.
Het lijkt erop dat videos bekeken door mij ook niet alle onderwerpen ( ins /outs) behandelen
Kan zijn dat ik meer tijd moet nemen om alles te bestuderen
Ben benieuwd naar de vertaling hiervan in het Engels !

via Google Translate:

Thanks!
Is consistent with what you write that the English language is not my native language.
It turns out to be surprisingly difficult to start with Dorico.
It seems that videos watched by me don’t cover all topics (ins / outs) either
I may have to take more time to study everything
I am curious about the translation of this in English!


I expect whether one has prior experience with other notation software or is starting with no experience, any notation package requires a significant learning period. The extensive number of help videos available can be overwhelming. Dan Kreider’s introduction to Dorico (although it deals with an earlier version) has helped many people get started understanding the concepts behind the software and first steps using it. The on-line or PDF manuals are helpful, but one must know what to search for, and knowing the Dorico vocabulary is sometimes confusing for someone starting out. I can only assure you that there is a logic behind the software, and learning to use it is well worth the time spent.

I regret that I never learned to speak the language of the Netherlands. My mother once suggested it to my grandmother, and she was a first generation U.S. citizenship and pooh-poohed it. My father’s grandparents on both sides came to the U.S. from the Netherlands in the mid-to-late 1800’s.

Ik verwacht dat of iemand eerdere ervaring heeft met andere notatiesoftware of zonder ervaring begint, elk notatiepakket een aanzienlijke leerperiode vereist. Het grote aantal beschikbare helpvideo’s kan overweldigend zijn. De introductie van Dan Kreider tot Dorico (hoewel het om een eerdere versie gaat) heeft veel mensen geholpen de concepten achter de software te begrijpen en de eerste stappen bij het gebruik ervan. De online- of pdf-handleidingen zijn nuttig, maar je moet weten waarnaar je moet zoeken, en het kennen van het Dorico-vocabulaire is soms verwarrend voor iemand die begint. Ik kan je alleen maar verzekeren dat er een logica achter de software zit, en het is de moeite waard om ermee te leren omgaan.

Ik vind het jammer dat ik de taal van Nederland nooit heb leren spreken. Mijn moeder stelde het ooit aan mijn grootmoeder voor, en zij was een Amerikaans staatsburgerschap van de eerste generatie en verpestte het. De grootouders van mijn vader aan beide kanten kwamen halverwege tot eind 1800 vanuit Nederland naar de VS.

Bedankt
@Derrek
Het is bemoedigend dat ik word geholpen hier op het forum om Dorico te leren.
Pech dat ik net in mijn voorbeeld met een lastig ritme kwam aanzetten .
Het schakelen tussen de invoermode en edit mode is nodig, want was geneigd eenmaal in de inputnote alle editing ook te doen.
Moet dat nogeens nalezen in de handleiding in dit onderscheid tussen input mode en zonder input mode.
Moet ook bekennen dat ik gewoon maar begonnen ben in Dorico zonder de handleiding eerst te hebben geraadpleegd met gewoon maar proberen ( trial and error).

Had zeker mooi geweest voor je om Nederlands te kunnen praten.
Ja, dan had je zeker Nederland weleens een keer bezocht.
Heb een tijd terug ook een stamboom uitgezocht van mijn voorouders en mijn vaders voorouders komen uit Friesland (provincie)
Er zijn veel Friezen geemigreerd naar de Verenigde Staten weet ik in vroegere tijden
Was niet gemakkelijk om te leven op het Friese platteland die dagen, dus ging men zijn heil ergens anders zoeken.
Heb dacht ik ook nog dan verre Friese familie in Amerika wonen, maar de stamboom is groot dus heb de familienamen niet paraat
Dus ik ken de familienamen niet van verre Friese verwanten in Amerika en zou het moeten uitzoeken.
Mocht het zo zijn dat je voorouders van Friese afkomst zijn , dan is het misschien niet zo moeilijk om meer voorouders van jouw persoon te vinden.
Zo heb ik zelf via mijn Friese stamboom een verre verwant in Zuid-Amerika wonen, tsja

Thanks
It is encouraging to be helped here in the forum to learn Dorico.
I just came up with a difficult rhythm in my example and ideal for learning Dorico
Switching between input mode and edit mode is necessary, as I tended to do all editing once in the input note.
Please i must read this again in the manual in this distinction between input mode and without input mode.
Must also admit that I just started in Dorico without having consulted the manual first with just trying (trial and error).

Would certainly have been nice for you to be able to speak Dutch.
Yes, then you would certainly have visited the Netherlands once.
A while ago I also selected a family tree of my ancestors and my father’s ancestors come from Friesland (province)
I know many Frisians immigrated to the United States in earlier times
It was not easy to live in the Frisian countryside in those days, so people went to look elsewhere.
I thought even then distant Frisian family living in America, but the family tree is large so do not have the family names ready
So I don’t know the family names of distant Frisian relatives in America and I should find out.
If your ancestors are of Frisian descent, it may not be that difficult to find more ancestors of your person.
I myself have a distant relative living in South America through my Frisian family tree, well remarkable.

Try to learn more from Dorico by stydying the: “Time-saving Input Options | Discover Dorico with John Barron”
Its writtten for a Mac computer this tutorial so useless for a Window user like me
Seems to be struggle to learn Dorico for windows ?, because there is no in depth video tutorial to find what shows all ins and outs like in the video for from John Barron.
Interesting , because its zoomed in on working in the galley view, but i do see all strange Mac commands and they are not translated in the video for windows users.

Generally, Dorico functions the same on Mac and Windows. There are a few cases where buttons in dialogs are the other way around (like Apply/Close) and some key commands are different, but mostly they’re equivalent. Very helpfully, Ant almost always confirms the difference when he says key commands e.g. “That’s Command on Mac” after describing a Windows key command.

Cmd on Mac (the square shape with circles on each corner) is the equivalent of Ctrl (Control) on Windows.
Opt on Mac is the equivalent of Alt on Windows.
Shift is the same on both Mac and Windows.

Thanks Lillie
I studied here before the Dorico Quick-reference -Card , but could not get a idea there how to translate the keystroke symbols for mac in the video

The Quick Reference card has separate columns for Windows and Mac. That said, these symbols are universal computer symbols, not unique to Dorico.

Yes of course
I see its tricky to open the Quickreference card ( the zoom was too small) , that’s why i probably did not recognize the OPT symbol alone:
For slashed/unslashed grace note i got a symbol where the slash was attached to the OPT symbol
Again set on the wrong leg…
Mr Murphy is a friend of mine :wink:

Hoi Jan (ik neem aan dat je zo heet),
Je mag mij gerust mailen (ik stuur je mijn email adres via PM) als je vragen hebt. Misschien kan ik je dan soms de goede kant op sturen. We hebben allemaal ervaren hoe lastig het leerproces kan zijn in het begin, en vooral als je moedertaal niet een van de talen is die Dorico ondersteunt (Chinees, Duits, Frans, Engels, Italiaans, Japans, Portugees, Russisch en Spaans). Pas op met ‘trial and error’, vooral aan het begin, want je raakt gauw gefrustreerd en je leert dan ook niet hoe je het beste met het programma kunt werken. Een systematische aanpak is altijd beter, en er zijn genoeg video’s en online informatie. Hou vol!
Met hartelijke groet,
Vaughan
P.S. Interessant over je stamboom! Frysân boppe!

Hoi Vaughan

Klopt hoor dat ik Jan heet
Je schrijft goed in het Nederlands en wel opmerkelijk gezien je naam.
Maar misschien heb je dan google translate gebruikt?

Raakte in het begin met Dorico het spoor bijster met de note input en de editing van de notes met “proberen” ( kijkn hoe intiuiatief het allemaal was )
Heb nu de optie: gebruik van muis uitgezet in de preferences van Dorico.
Aardig het aanbod voor je hulp.

Systematisch te werk gaan om te iets leren is het meest effectief als leerstrategie en “trial and error” is het minst effectief
Dus leren bij trial en error is niet aanbevolen.

Ja, de Friese stamboom die ik heb is heel uitgebreid en gaat ver terug naar 1200~ 1300 naar verschillende hoofdelingen families
Heb nog niet alles in kaart gebracht en er zit nog wel speurwerk naar direkte friese voorouders.

Ja, het is een bewerkelijk leerproces om al die videos te moeten raadplegen

Groetjes
Jan

google translate


Hi Vaughan

It is true that my name is Jan
You write well in Dutch, which is remarkable given your name.
But then maybe you used google translate?

Got lost in the beginning with Dorico with the note input and the editing of the notes with “try” (see how intuitive it all was)
Now have the option: disabled use of mouse in Dorico’s preferences.
Nice the offer for your help.

Systematic learning is most effective as a learning strategy, and trial and error is the least effective
So learning by trial and error is not recommended.

Yes, the Frisian family tree that I have is very extensive and goes way back to 1200 ~ 1300 to different chieftain families
Have not mapped everything out yet and there is still research into direct Frisian ancestors.

Yes, it is a laborious learning process to consult all those videos

Greetings
Jan

I am still battling with the force duration with my note example
-when i input bar 2 i see that no tie is there assigned, so force duration is needed then



Try also to follow this workflow hereunder, but is this leadingto the wanted bar 2? ???

When forcing the duration of existing notes (as it sounds like you’re doing - taking your existing bar 2 and wanting to turn it into the same note grouping as your example?) you have to reduce the note duration of tied notes, otherwise Dorico can’t know exactly what you want (that is, do you want to lock how it looks currently, or change it?)

So for you: select the first note in bar 2, outside of note input. (without the caret.) Make sure Force Duration is active for that C - check in the toolbox on the left. Then press 7 to make it just a half note. Then press . to make it a dotted half. Then you’ll probably need to re-input the eighth note C afterwards. Then leave note input, select the first dotted half C (double-check Force Duration is active), then press T.

I think the easiest way to solve this is if i see that there is no tie connected with the right notes from the default Dorico note input . .to start over with a empty measure : agree?
What i did is make the dotted 1/2 note assigned : selected this note and assign force duration and assign a tie to it in order to connect it with a 1/8 note.
Now i get the wanted note configuration in my example

Note : starting again with the existing 1/2 note …as pianoleo explained is the same workflow as i used so its quicker , but now you have wrong notes in the bar what disturbes the new input if i did the whole bar 2 input already
As soon it goes wrong with a tie in this case start over with a existing 1/2 dotted note and correct the 1/2 note use force duration
Starting over with a empty bar …
maat 2 def uitgezocht.gif