How to hide the orange "bar manager" bar? & other questions

[m.oritz]

hi everyone, i’m currently working on a project and learning how to use dorico, and i’m having a few problems. i’m using dorico se 6 for macos.

i searched the forum and i haven’t found any relevant threads. if i’m mistaken please excuse my post, english is not my first language and i might have searched the wrong musical terms.

i’m gonna post a screenshot and the relevant excerpts from my project:

project.dorico (1,4 MB)

how do i hide that orange bar when not in use? it keeps covering pedal indications and low notes i have to edit like in this example. once i prep all the necessary bars for my piece i don’t need it around anymore.

how do i put fermatas on a single note, or on a single staff? everytime i put a fermata, dorico puts one in each staff, whether there are notes or not. when inputting, i only selected the E note, but dorico put three fermatas, one on E and one on each staff. this is not how i want to play that bar, the fermata only applies to E. i tried untying them with the scissor tool but it didn’t work. i know there has been discussion on the “correct” meaning of fermata on this forum regarding other fermata formatting, but that’s not the point in this case. three fermatas like that would be played very differently from one single fermata on E, which is also a fairly frequent sight in piano scores.

regarding the ff espressivo and the “>”, i know you can move them horizontally and i know you can select where (relative to the staff) to put them with the properties menu, but is there a way to move them vertically freely? like, in this example i would like to drag the ff espressivo up so that it rests on top of the three lines of the 32nd notes. same for the >, and also drag the three lines of the 32nd notes down to accomodate the dynamic. i know you can modify spacing between staves, i tried doing that so that there would be more space to fit the dynamics without them getting covered, but the ff espressivo and the > keep staying hidden by the 32nd notes.

lastly, is there a way to make a project where accidentals are only valid for the note they’re put on, like in contemporary atonal music? maybe also choose if i only want sharps (like C, C#, D, D#…) or flats (like C, Db, D, Eb…). i know you can “fake” it by simply writing as you want and not caring for what dorico “thinks” those notes are, but sometimes i have to move up or down by half tones and it would become cumbersome to always go back and correct.

i also have a couple other questions that are not relevant to the project, but that i wanted to ask to improve my efficiency at using this program:

why does dorico keep changing window size? every other program keeps their windows the same as i resized them the first time. dorico just won’t, and often the size is bigger than my screen so that i have to drag the window around to resize it. is there a way to “fix” it?

i don’t get the use of having the possibility of turning “force duration” off. i checked the mark to have it always on, but it keeps deselecting whenever. when inputting a note you already have to have a duration selected from the palette, so i don’t get why dorico should arbitrarily change duration, especially because modifying the duration of an already input note is very cumbersome and won’t always work when i need it to work. i just don’t get it, what am i missing?

thank you to everyone who will take the time to answer. have a nice day!

[ghellquist]

@m.oritz

how do i hide that orange bar when not in use? it keeps covering pedal indications and low notes i have to edit like in this example. once i prep all the necessary bars for my piece i don’t need it around anymore.

It is called system track. View menu (or Option-T on my Mac).

[ghellquist]

@m.oritz

regarding the ff espressivo and the “>”, i know you can move them horizontally and i know you can select where (relative to the staff) to put them with the properties menu, but is there a way to move them vertically freely? l

In Engrave mode (not available in Dorico SE), you can freely move these things to any position, both vertically and horizontally. Also in engrave mode you can modify the distance between staves (the general advice is to work on layouts, but sometimes you have to).

[ghellquist]

@m.oritz

how do i put fermatas on a single note

The workaround I use is to enter it as text. It will not play back as such but show on print. The following steps:

• In write mode, select a single note
• Write > Create text – I tend to use default text (you may experiment).
• In the popover showing, first box, select Music Text
• In the text entry, right click and select Insert Music Text
• You can select a formata (search for fermataAbove) – it will create a small fermata sign (this is only a text).
• Select the fermata, open the properties panel
• Change custom scale, to something bigger, 200 works.

[m.oritz]

thank you so much for your answers! this specific engraving function should be “edit vertical spacing”, and would be available in dorico elements, correct?

[ghellquist]

@m.oritz

lastly, is there a way to make a project where accidentals are only valid for the note they’re put on, like in contemporary atonal music? maybe also choose if i only want sharps (like C, C#, D, D#…) or flats (like C, Db, D, Eb…). i know you can “fake” it by simply writing as you want and not caring for what dorico “thinks” those notes are, but sometimes i have to move up or down by half tones and it would become cumbersome to always go back and correct.

Not sure exactly what you are asking for. Only trying to give a suggestion. There are choices under Library > Notation Options > Accidentals that you might try out.

[ghellquist]

@m.oritz

i don’t get the use of having the possibility of turning “force duration” off. i checked the mark to have it always on, but it keeps deselecting whenever. when inputting a note

Have you checked the setting in Dorico > Preferences?

[ghellquist]

On edit vertical spacing: Not certain - I use Doric Pro.

[m.oritz]

thank you for all the infos, the accidentals notations you showed are exactly what i was looking for. unfortunately engraving and those options are blocked in dorico se, i’ll look into it to see if elements can provide.

the “preserve force duration” preference you showed i already have it checked, but it keeps deselecting anyway, not always but often enough to be annoying.

anyways, thanks a lot! have a good day

[jaskarbong]

@m.oritz

checked, but it keeps deselecting anyway

After selecting this, do you press “Apply”? And have you selected “Make Default” so that you don’t have to change it again for new projects? (Sometimes we overlook the obvious — just checking!)

— Jim

[m.oritz]

i have done all that, and yet everytime it happens randomly. i keep going back to preferences to see if it’s still checked, and everytime it is, but still keeps deselecting at random moments, both in the same project and in new projects. actually, in new projects i have to select it in the beginning everytime, it’s never selected by default.

since we’re talking about it, is there a way to make the chord input (the thing you turn on with Q) selected by default too? i need it off very sporadically if ever at all, i need it on but this too keeps deselecting everytime i switch between “select” (=the arrow tool) and inputting note tool.

[asherber]

@m.oritz

actually, in new projects i have to select it in the beginning everytime, it’s never selected by default.

Correct, this is expected. The checkbox just means that once you turn Force Duration on for a project, it should stay on; it doesn’t set a default state.

In part, I think this is because Dorico is trying to encourage you to work without Force Duration. There’s a lot of discussion about this, but in general Force Duration goes against Dorico’s principles of using high-level rules to control format as much as possible. For example, let’s say you enter a forced duration half note on the first beat of a 4/4 bar. Later, you decide that you want this same note of two beats duration to start an eighth note later, so you use Alt+right arrow to slide it over. With Force Duration, you get this:

Which is very likely not what you want, because it’s non-standard notation. Without Force Duration, you’d get something like this:

Dorico automatically reformats the two-beat note to match notation standards.

Yes, this example is a little contrived, and yes, many people are doing direct engraving rather than composing and don’t care about this kind of flexibility. And yes, I was confused and frustrated by Dorico’s behavior when I started. But I came to see the benefits of working within Dorico’s system and using Force Duration only when needed.

[asherber]

@m.oritz

how do i put fermatas on a single note, or on a single staff?

@ghellquist has suggested inputting a single fermata as text; I think you will find that the more usual suggestion is to create it as a playing technique. It will automatically be the right size in that case, and will automatically center itself over/under the note.

Dorico Pro also has a setting in Engraving Options (not available in SE) that lets you control the number of fermatas per staff.

[m.oritz]

@asherber

because it’s non-standard notation

standard notation for whom? sure, if you’re notating classical music or music where metre is important, then yes i’d agree with you. and in fact i have found use of “force duration off” when notating my classical exercises. however, the majority of time i’m not doing that, and in such cases having a 2/4 note is clearer to read than a 1/4 with point + 1/8, even in a 4/4 metre, and it’s standard to group durations together instead of dividing that way and using a tie. i say this as an interpreter of contemporary music, not just as a music editor. that’s because in certain kinds of music it really doesn’t matter that the durations are implicitly organized as the metre says, since often the metre is just there to say how much of a duration is in that bar and not how metric accents are organized.

also, “force duration off” often doesn’t just do that in my experience. “force duration off” sometimes outright changes the duration of the note i was inputting. many times it happened that i hit shift+N, select a duration from the palette, input my note and dorico changes the duration i had selected, inputting a note that’s not the duration i wanted and purposefully selected. i honestly don’t know why it happens, maybe there’s a reason behind it, maybe it’s just a bug in my system, but that’s annoying anyways.

i’m really enjoying dorico because truthfully you can do many many things other music notation programs don’t do, so don’t take this as an attack, but, just in the case of the fermata discussions i’ve seen on this forum, i don’t really agree with the ideals of dorico encouraging you to do things a certain way. i get what you’re saying, and i get that there are technical limitations and decisions to be made on how the software needs to be. but i also think the premise should be that a dorico user knows music, and when doing “incorrect” things they know that they’re doing them for a reason. dorico is powerful, but also a bit paternalistic to use. i always feel like it’s trying to correct me on everything.

thank you for your explanation of the logic behind it, though. my goal is improve efficiency and if i know why things are how they are i might get around the software more easily. have a nice day!

[asherber]

@m.oritz

many times it happened that i hit shift+N, select a duration from the palette, input my note and dorico changes the duration i had selected, inputting a note that’s not the duration i wanted and purposefully selected.

I’ve never seen this happen. It would be interesting to know if you ever find a reproducible case.

(Unless you’re talking, for example, about something like durations changing on tied notes. If you input a quarter note on beat 1 of a 4/4 bar and then tie it to a quarter note on beat 2, Dorico will change it to a half note, since that’s the usual way of notating a 2-beat duration in that position.)

@m.oritz

dorico is powerful, but also a bit paternalistic to use. i always feel like it’s trying to correct me on everything.

If you upgrade to Dorico Pro, you will be able to customize most of the engraving rules that Dorico uses. It’s true that SE and Elements don’t give you access to those. (You can download a 60-day free trial of Dorico Pro.)

[m.oritz]

@asherber

I’ve never seen this happen. It would be interesting to know if you ever find a reproducible case.

(Unless you’re talking, for example, about something like durations changing on tied notes. If you input a quarter note on beat 1 of a 4/4 bar and then tie it to a quarter note on beat 2, Dorico will change it to a half note, since that’s the usual way of notating a 2-beat duration in that position.)

unfortunately no, i’m not talking about that case, just straight up getting a different duration, usually the next bigger one (like say, i choose 1/32, i get 1/16), but not related to ties nor same pitches. i’m glad to know it’s a my-copy-of-the-software problem and not the intended functionality!

@asherber

you will be able to customize most of the engraving rules that Dorico uses. It’s true that SE and Elements don’t give you access to those

i’ve just upgraded to elements, and when my next project will be ready for being notated digitally i’ll also try the pro demo.

thanks a lot for taking the time to answer my questions!

[Janus]

@m.oritz

standard notation for whom?

Mostly for real people faced with playing the piece, often with little or no rehearsal. The standard notation has been developed (over centuries) to minimise errors. Much the same as languages have standardised the spelling of words to avoid confusion (in English the musical term is “Meter”, whereas “Metre” is a length of 100cm).

@m.oritz

“force duration off” sometimes outright changes the duration of the note i was inputting.

If you can provide an example of this, I’m sure the team would be very interested.

[ghellquist]

@m.oritz

standard notation for whom?

Welcome to the community. You will find that there are different opionions here, as well everywhere.

My guess is that the design of Dorico mostly starts from a classical perspective, say Gould Behind Bars. As such it tries to implement the “standard” rules even for a person not necessarily classically trained in notation (or whatever). The idea is that the notated parts should be as playable as possible. Well, my thoughts only. It works really well for what I do.

But of course, contemporary music sometimes is about challenging and even “breaking” the rules. Some of this can be done in Dorico, but not everything. I am convinced that the development team listens carefully to everything said in this forum and and adds things to their probably very long list of future enhancements.

In the meantime, what we can do is to try to understand how the program works and try to work around any limitations. It is like playing a quirky musical instrument, I play the bassoon.

Regardless, welcom, and if you have questions we (the community here) will try to help you.

[m.oritz]

@ghellquist

You will find that there are different opionions here, as well everywhere.

@ghellquist

The idea is that the notated parts should be as playable as possible.

@ghellquist

try to understand how the program works and try to work around any limitations. It is like playing a quirky musical instrument

thank you for your reply! it does make sense. as i explained, i do play the pieces and oftentimes in contemporary music it is just easier to have notes that display the duration as is, and not as the classical way would require. i better understand what “force duration off” is for now, my frustration stemmed from being unable to keep it on rather than having it there per se. i now see it’s a problem on my part, if i’m able to replicate the bug i’ll let you all know.

thank you all again for your replies, they’ve been very helpful.

[k_b]

@m.oritz

i do play the pieces and oftentimes in contemporary music it is just easier to have notes that display the duration as is

Let me throw in another perspective.
It makes a difference if a composer writes a composition for himself - or for other musicians to perform.
If it is for other musicians to perform the music, they will distinguish notation that helps them perform and notation that makes the challenge
more difficult. Professional musicians, even if they don’t speak it out loudly, will have a very fine sense for these differences. They will feel
challenged and respected, or they will feel ignored and lose interest. Because a composer and his or her performers are a team to bring a composition to life, you get best results, if they work together on mutual respect.